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brainsausage
09-16-2012, 02:38 PM
Hi y'all,

So I'm looking to do away with my ceramic steel, and I'd like some suggestions as to what would be a good alternative for daily realignment between sharpening sessions. I'm about to pick up a bestor 1200, and the rika 5k. Should I roll with a strop for finishing/touch ups? Or a higher grit stone? (I'm not looking for a highly polished edge btw, tooth and longevity are more useful to me)The majority of knives I use during the day are in the 61-64 HRC range, btw. Appreciate any suggestions!

Cheers,

-Josh

K-Fed
09-16-2012, 03:00 PM
Stropping on a finishing stone, the rika is pretty much that sweet spot for tooth and refinement imho and all I've been using lately to finish with, works great if you're looking to keep that kind of edge going. a strop with a coarser compound works well too. My favorite right now is loaded with 3 micron natural diamond.

zitangy
09-16-2012, 03:04 PM
You have to realize the grit of the ceramic rd. that is the key as it will determine how abrasive it is. IF the edge is already rounded off due to all the cutting action, more steel removal would be required ans you would want to do it fast and use an appropriate grit.

A fine ceramic rod should be in teh region of 1000+ grit and I do use it to remove burrs and also a light touch up on it should the strop not be effective when the degradation calls for more steel removal, followed by on the strop .I also suspect that and you knock off the burrs, the edge will be slightly rounded

hence it wld be a useful tool to have around.

rgds
d

bieniek
09-16-2012, 03:35 PM
I dont use anything inbetween sessions, just sharpen when the knife gets dull.

Can get 5 full shifts out of shigefusa, so a week. If have crazy weeks, then have other blades in rotation so can actually go 5 weeks without the need to sharpen.

brainsausage
09-16-2012, 03:42 PM
I dont use anything inbetween sessions, just sharpen when the knife gets dull.

Can get 5 full shifts out of shigefusa, so a week. If have crazy weeks, then have other blades in rotation so can actually go 5 weeks without the need to sharpen.

What's your sharpening routine Michal?

gentlecook
09-16-2012, 06:03 PM
I sharpen my Yoshikane SLD suji every working morning,
need to cut a lot of fish and rolls.

im beginer in sharpening
but this new knife lasted for about two days on our sushi-bar.

wanna try carbon suji to compare with this SLD.

bieniek
09-16-2012, 06:07 PM
Rarely DMT to begin with, but if theres some serious thinning [like Ive been lazy for few weeks with thinning] to be done, I just found that as a rule of thumb thinning takes more time then you have planned for it. So when thinning, Im beginning with the diamond plate.

If its my regular knife then I work blades sides a little with my next stone in progression - JNS 1K.
Then I am sharpening edge with same stone. Always finish with alternated strokes one per side x10 and reducing pressure.
But the pressure part is tricky you must know your knife.

Then I take it to my strop which is cheap piece of leather I trimmed, glued to a piece of wood which is also my deburring block and I strop only 1 stroke per side.
Leather costed me nothing and I believe for kitchen knives you dont need anything over that!

Deburring.

Go to my next stone - this is white binsui. I dont know the grit, anyway I use around 6K nagura on it, and begin by polishing sides. That produces more mud which in turn makes the sharpening better.

So i finish off the edge, strop, deburr, go back to the stone for some more alternating strokes, and strop again. Dont do more than one stroke per side with strop but im paying ultra close attention to details.

Usually this is where I stop, after 15 minutes or so.

Eamon Burke
09-16-2012, 06:53 PM
A fine stone. I find a strop to be a good maintenance tool if you are at home and very careful, but it's really not going to bring back an edge, only provide it with some different qualities, in a professional setting.

The best tool for the job is a JNat that you like a lot. The only issue is finding it(and often, paying for it). I have yet to find a synthetic splash-n-go that I like above 2k, so if you tote you knives too and from work, you can keep a stone soaking at home.

bkdc
09-16-2012, 09:19 PM
I use a Dickeron polished 12inch steel. It realigns without any sort of sharpening as the surface is completely smooth. Another nonabrasive option would be a high quality borosilicate rod. It will realign the edge without any kind of abrasion. Given your 61-64 blades, a borosilicate rod would be the best option... although I doubt any kind of rod is very useful at HRC64. No problem at HRC61. Either option will run you 100+ dollars.

Crothcipt
09-16-2012, 09:28 PM
Yep have been waiting for a few mo. for the borosilicate rod's to get back in stock.

brainsausage
09-16-2012, 11:37 PM
The reason I'd prefer to switch to a strop over a steel, is the actual movement required. It's far more difficult to maintain a steady angle on a rod as opposed to a fixed plane(strop) IMO.

Taz575
09-17-2012, 05:34 AM
Get a piece of Micarta (linen is better for stropping, canvas seems to work better deburring) handle material, sand it to 80-100 grit on one side and strop on that. You can add a compound to it after sanding as well if you want. Sounds crazy, but it does work and refine the edge! Denim has some natural abrasive qualities to it and I used to strop a pocket knife on jeans.

jgraeff
09-17-2012, 09:07 AM
Rarely DMT to begin with, but if theres some serious thinning [like Ive been lazy for few weeks with thinning] to be done, I just found that as a rule of thumb thinning takes more time then you have planned for it. So when thinning, Im beginning with the diamond plate.

If its my regular knife then I work blades sides a little with my next stone in progression - JNS 1K.
Then I am sharpening edge with same stone. Always finish with alternated strokes one per side x10 and reducing pressure.
But the pressure part is tricky you must know your knife.

Then I take it to my strop which is cheap piece of leather I trimmed, glued to a piece of wood which is also my deburring block and I strop only 1 stroke per side.
Leather costed me nothing and I believe for kitchen knives you dont need anything over that!

Deburring.

Go to my next stone - this is white binsui. I dont know the grit, anyway I use around 6K nagura on it, and begin by polishing sides. That produces more mud which in turn makes the sharpening better.

So i finish off the edge, strop, deburr, go back to the stone for some more alternating strokes, and strop again. Dont do more than one stroke per side with strop but im paying ultra close attention to details.

Usually this is where I stop, after 15 minutes or so.

Would you do a video next time you do thinning/ sharpening? I'd like tO see your technique for removing scratches?

Cadillac J
09-17-2012, 05:43 PM
I find that a finishing stone works the best for any type of maintenance.

In fact, my leather and felt strops have sat under the sink for about a year unused, as I feel they don't improve my freshly sharpened edges, and they don't bring back an edge that needs touching up enough for me (I want that bite).

Used to swear by strops for making my edges better, but now they seem more of an unnecessary step. All my opinion.

EdipisReks
09-17-2012, 08:06 PM
Kitayama, used splash-and-go, is what i would use in a pro setting. at home i just use a strop, most of the time (.5 CrO on balsa)

NO ChoP!
09-18-2012, 09:00 AM
I go to the bester 700/ green brick combo lately. Gives a lasting toothy edge. Anything higher doesn't hold up in the kitchen for long. If I strop, its on paper; again any stropped edge will last a minute in the kitchen. I do on occasion back strop on a shapton.

I still like the black Mac rod for softer steels. (Sub 60)

jgraeff
09-18-2012, 10:12 AM
I have to disagree only with my personal accounts. I usually sharpen 400, 1k, red aoto, Takashima. After each stone I strop on each one, then use wood/ felt to make sure the burr is gone. I then strop on felt with 1 micron diamond slurry. My last edge on Markos Gyuto in 52100 lasted over 2.5 weeks without any touch ups honestly. Obviously it's not as sharp as right off the stones but still way more sharp than my shun gets. Maybe is the steel.. Not sure but I get at least 2 weeks in a pro kitchen and I use that knife from fish, to beef, to veggies and fruit.

zitangy
09-18-2012, 10:53 AM
The reason I'd prefer to switch to a strop over a steel, is the actual movement required. It's far more difficult to maintain a steady angle on a rod as opposed to a fixed plane(strop) IMO.

Hi that is interesting, had that problem before.. solved it by putting it flat on a flat surface. It made me realize that spine leading strokes just open teh burrs whils a cutting stroke hopefully breaks off the wire edge(s) which will leave a rounded edge ( adn has to be further honed to make it angular.) Spine leading as on a strop will open and the burr/curls adn this wld be a weak edge as it will be weak adn only waiting to break off leaving a rounded edge after it breaks..

thats what u think any way...
a minute one)

Any tried this product? http://jewelstik.com/kitchen/1-2-3 ( 270, 600 adn 1800 grit) combo horny rod
I like the idea of 3 in one and ability to choose the correct grit for honing depending on what you want to achieve..

rgds..

bieniek
09-19-2012, 02:40 PM
Would you do a video next time you do thinning/ sharpening? I'd like tO see your technique for removing scratches?

Will do.

Actually am in process of selling Yoshikane petty so must thin it, and Ittetsu waits for that also.

stevenStefano
09-19-2012, 04:14 PM
I just use 0.5 cro on leather and that is what I have used since I started using good knives. I rarely use my Mac ceramic rod now because it totally kills your edge retention even though it gives you a toothy edge, it never lasts for long and you get into a vicious circle of using it. If you want something toothy, use cardboard, that's what I use for my boning knife

keithsaltydog
09-19-2012, 04:31 PM
Good thread alot of acurate info.Main thing is not to allow your blade in a shift to get too dull.Splash & Go is good just a lite touchup if your blade is trained.Also you can control angle on a steel,put the rod tip on a towel on the table.Angle should be about the same or just a hair more than your final angle on the stone,pay attention to the spine,lite measured strokes,just the weight of the blade.I used a polishing steel(smooth)on my carbon Masa's for yrs.kept it going during an 8 hr. shift.Incorrect steel tech. in kitchens is common.

I have never seen a strop in a production Kit.Totally smooth steels or ceramics work if used correctly.Only use a daimond plate if knife is dull & you want to reprofile,you have to be careful wt. the plates don't over do it or you can prematurely wear down your blade.

Don't get me wrong I use my Atoma 600 as first step thinning esp. on others knives,it works much better than low grit stones,my own knives I rarely touch to a plate,no need.Again correct tech. is more important than the materials being used.If you sharpen at work,one or two stones is all you need(gesshen has some good splash & go)& a smooth Rod.

bieniek
09-21-2012, 05:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku_mNhFv57w&feature=plcp

Oh bollocks, something ma`kes noise in the washing machine


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbttrDFQYCY&feature=channel&list=UL

At the end there you can see how the XC and C DMT leaves quite different scratch patterns, yes, used wet.

this is totally uncut as im after vodka martini and week of constant pushing so last thing to do is editing video, so you can hear my wife there and such,

Will try to record rest tomorrow?