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View Full Version : I'm Finally Becoming A Man



scott6452
09-26-2012, 01:26 PM
So finally ive made the transition from this:

http://s16.postimage.org/fjyuawzzp/IMG_0571.jpg

To This:

http://s16.postimage.org/v1mcem6gl/IMG_0570.jpg


Im looking forward to the new sharpening freedom and looking much more macho when touching up at the end of shifts!

pitonboy
09-26-2012, 01:33 PM
According to my wife all you will look is more nerdy--but it will feel so much more rewarding!

jayhay
09-26-2012, 01:41 PM
Yeah man! Looks like you got a nice setup their! Good luck with the new stones :)

stevenStefano
09-26-2012, 01:48 PM
What's the palest one on the left? Where did you get them from? You'll do a lot better without the EP

Chefdog
09-26-2012, 01:49 PM
I've always associated these kind of sharpening jigs to cooking sous vide: The results are precise and consistent, but the process lacks the reward of knowing you put some soul and finesse into it, IMHO.

Congrats, I hope you enjoy the change and the challenge. Looks like quite a nice set of stones.

maxim
09-26-2012, 01:52 PM
Good move :doublethumbsup:

knyfeknerd
09-26-2012, 02:02 PM
congrats

Mucho Bocho
09-26-2012, 02:04 PM
I've gone from bench stones to the Edge Pro. Does that make me woman?

kalaeb
09-26-2012, 02:05 PM
I think you will find sharpening much more rewarding, you may not get the same results at first, but in the long run, imo, you will be better off.

scott6452
09-26-2012, 02:50 PM
I've gone from bench stones to the Edge Pro. Does that make me woman?

Nah, Makes you some kind of super human!

Will give it a bash tomorrow and post results.

Line up:
140 grit diamond plate
Minosharp 400
chosera 1k
chosera 5k
Balsa strop with 1 micron diamond spray

add
09-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Are these gizmos capable of thinning or just edge work?

scott6452
09-26-2012, 03:06 PM
They can thin around 2-3mm up from the edge on an average blade on its lowest angle setting. Doesn't make too much of a difference.

Mucho Bocho
09-26-2012, 03:07 PM
They will do both. the only detraction I have about the EP is that they aren't ideal for single bevel knives and do take more time to set up. Also there is a learning curve to everything. remember your first real girlfriend?

I tried bench sharpening and I just could not hold the blade consistently. Then when i ordered the EP and got some nice stones for it, i've never looked back. I have around $1K invested in it, some folks around here Madrookie, I bet he has three times that invested. In general folks on this site poo poo the EP because they have mastered free-hand sharpening. Good for them i say but i don't have any sharpening envy. Like I said, there is a learning curve to everything.

ajhuff
09-26-2012, 03:31 PM
Good comment.

-AJ

Lefty
09-26-2012, 03:45 PM
Nice set-up!

Mucho Bocho, you honesty have to wear your thumb pads away a couple of times and then you figure out how to hold an angle with ease, or relative ease, anyways.

TB_London
09-26-2012, 03:54 PM
Nice move, chosera 1k 5k is my standard progression and gives a great edge

brainsausage
09-26-2012, 04:26 PM
Just got my first two wets yesterday. And spent about five hours grinding every knife I could get my hands(much to the amusement of my staff). So satisfying... Now I need a couple coarse suckers to start thinning all the fatso's in house.

Lefty
09-26-2012, 04:30 PM
Tell them to drink less once shift is over and they should drop at least 10lbs....

Mucho Bocho
09-26-2012, 07:26 PM
Lefty, Thats what I thought I was trying to do. I guess I wasn't patient enough with the process. Either way, I'm happy with the results I can produce, with lots of support for the folks on this forum. I know what sharp and toothy is. Both have their place.

What amazes me is how quickly people can set the edge and then refine it in minutes. Have you ever seen Will Catcheside put a bevel and refine an edge on one of his knives. In his videos, he's able to set and refine the edge it in like so few passes, moving through a four or five stone progression. No fancy do this with that grit, strop... Its simply magic.

Justin0505
09-26-2012, 08:08 PM
There should be no shame in using an EP. As a kid, I learned on an oil stone, then I get a combo japanese whetstone (done remember the brand), then a EP pro, a HA strop set, and then more free-hand stones (including a couple j-nats).
Now I probably free-hand 90% of the time. But, I still enjoy the EP and it comes out when I'm feeling extra geeky (really want to test different angles and geometry) or I have a pile of beat up knives from a friend and I want a lower grit range(I find the stock EP stones to be very fast and proficient on cheaper steel). It's also great for figuring out how to work with the really hard or temperamental stuff like PM stainless.

There is no doubt in my mind that the EP made me a better free-hand sharpener and vica-versa. Both have their pros and cons, and both systems require skill to master.

brainsausage
09-26-2012, 11:30 PM
Tell them to drink less once shift is over and they should drop at least 10lbs....

Hah! Might as well tell em to stop breathing!

Lucretia
09-27-2012, 12:02 AM
Wait till I tell hubby he's been sleeping with a man. :O

hax9215
09-27-2012, 12:07 AM
Ya'll gOt a real set of stones, bro!

Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

knyfeknerd
09-27-2012, 12:08 AM
Wait till I tell hubby he's been sleeping with a man. :O
Haha!


Seriously though, this has turned into a great thread(not that it was ever bad)

-to each his own, whether you like/use EP or not(I haven't), it's good to know that it serves the purpose of keeping a good knife sharp, and possibly helping out with someone's understanding of freehanding technique.

Crothcipt
09-27-2012, 12:25 AM
There should be no shame in using an EP. As a kid, I learned on an oil stone, then I get a combo japanese whetstone (done remember the brand), then a EP pro, a HA strop set, and then more free-hand stones (including a couple j-nats).
Now I probably free-hand 90% of the time. But, I still enjoy the EP and it comes out when I'm feeling extra geeky (really want to test different angles and geometry) or I have a pile of beat up knives from a friend and I want a lower grit range(I find the stock EP stones to be very fast and proficient on cheaper steel). It's also great for figuring out how to work with the really hard or temperamental stuff like PM stainless.

There is no doubt in my mind that the EP made me a better free-hand sharpener and vica-versa. Both have their pros and cons, and both systems require skill to master.

:plus1:

as I was looking at the smilies, I thought that this one could be used too if someone was to be all fan-boy about either

:lame::lame:

Mike9
09-27-2012, 08:32 AM
That's about what my kit looks like - stone fixer, 500, 1k, 6k, strops. I enjoy the feedback I get from free hand sharpening.

scott6452
09-27-2012, 10:03 AM
Well ive had a go today and it's all went so much smoother than i expected. First tried my Carter funayuki for its nice flat profile. Nice even bevels, shaving sharp after 1k, im pretty chuffed! Also managed to sharpen the house kitchens 6 globals in around 20 minutes which is easily a new record. It may just go to show how much common skill there must be to freehand and EP sharpening.

Yes, i think me and freehand are going to get on very well together. No to try and avoid falling down the rabbit hole as far as stones go, the knife situation is bad enough!

A crappy pic to try and show the job:

http://s15.postimage.org/hr6pm9x4r/IMG_0573.jpg

bieniek
09-27-2012, 11:50 AM
I've always associated these kind of sharpening jigs to cooking sous vide: The results are precise and consistent, but the process lacks the reward of knowing you put some soul and finesse into it, IMHO.


+1

Thanks man.

And not a rock-fanboy here, but I cannot imagine thinning with that "device". So seriously, is there any video about it on youtube? I want to see.

Mucho Bocho
09-27-2012, 12:07 PM
You just drop the angle of the stone and grind? same as a bench stone but the EP holds the stone consistently over the whole blade. I'd love to do a sharp-off against some free-handers. so tired of the by hand dogma. There is more than one way to skin a cat and the adage, "don't knock it until you've tried it" comes to mind.

bieniek
09-27-2012, 12:09 PM
Can you drop the angle to 0?

Otherwise what you do is just extending edge, not thinning

Mucho Bocho
09-27-2012, 12:33 PM
Bi, no you can on my model, only goes to 10 degrees without modification, the pro model will allow a zero angle. so your saying that you have to grind the whole blade profile to properly thin the knife? Doesn't sound right. If I grind/thin at a 10 degree angle and create a 2-3mm bevel, then cut in a 15 degree bevel on that, then finish with a 20 degree micro-bevel on that, your saying the 10 degree primary bevel is not thinning?

How do you properly thin convex blade then? I'm not being contentious as certainly don't have all the answers. Please explain

bluntcut
09-27-2012, 01:35 PM
Can you drop the angle to 0?

Otherwise what you do is just extending edge, not thinning

Yes, I can zero-grind on an EP by padding the clamp area or double-side tape a 2cm piece of wood to the blade. Also to convex, I tape SiC wet&dry onto a leather strop or mouse-padded blank. Sharpness off EP & freehand are about the same, especially when strop finished.

If there be any sharp-off (just for fun ofcourse!), competing edges should finished on hone not strop. I bet my freehand against my EP self :tooth:

bieniek
09-27-2012, 06:18 PM
Bi, no you can on my model, only goes to 10 degrees without modification, the pro model will allow a zero angle. so your saying that you have to grind the whole blade profile to properly thin the knife? Doesn't sound right. If I grind/thin at a 10 degree angle and create a 2-3mm bevel, then cut in a 15 degree bevel on that, then finish with a 20 degree micro-bevel on that, your saying the 10 degree primary bevel is not thinning?

How do you properly thin convex blade then? I'm not being contentious as certainly don't have all the answers. Please explain

Sure I can try to explain.
From where I sit, proper thinning of japanese knife doesnt mean you have to work on whole blades face, cause the blades side/sides are ground convex.

Please check this thread out, pictures worth thousand words :)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/8524-Yoshikane-petty-thinning-job?highlight=

But first let me tell you that Im Tormek fan. Its same gizmo just with engine. I have the T7 version with the 4000 grit japanese blah blah wheel :)
It works tremenously well if you have to sharpen fast many knives. Mediocre knives. You have 30 Tojiros? I would not like to sharpen them all by hand, please, no.
And so here comes tormek, the edge it produces is beyond acceptable, aand I totally agree theres learning curve to proper usage.
But would it work best for some carbon thin high end japaneses? I dont want to try.
And the time require, well, much less than with stones. I admit that....

JBroida
09-27-2012, 08:10 PM
Bi, no you can on my model, only goes to 10 degrees without modification, the pro model will allow a zero angle. so your saying that you have to grind the whole blade profile to properly thin the knife? Doesn't sound right. If I grind/thin at a 10 degree angle and create a 2-3mm bevel, then cut in a 15 degree bevel on that, then finish with a 20 degree micro-bevel on that, your saying the 10 degree primary bevel is not thinning?

How do you properly thin convex blade then? I'm not being contentious as certainly don't have all the answers. Please explain

a large number of knives i know have thinning angles around 2-3 degrees

Justin0505
09-27-2012, 11:34 PM
Can you drop the angle to 0?

Otherwise what you do is just extending edge, not thinning

I have only used the pro model, but I know that its possible on the apex if you just add a little wood block or spacer to the bed.

For me, learning the concept of thinning behind the edge was very easy on the EP, because you can make angle adjustments in infinitely small increments until you get it just where you are BEHIND the primary bevel and not on it or too high up. One big bonus to the learning on the EP is that you are actually looking at the same side that the stone is touching so you instantly see the effect of each pass.

When I started thinning a blade with an uneven grind by hand, I wasn't sure at first how much was of the uneven abrasion was from my wobble and how much was from the blade, but when I put it on the EP, I KNOW that the angle is consistent and the inconsistencies are in the blade and not my hand/head.
In this way I very much view the EP as a learning and confidence-building tool.

Now, I've very confident in putting a nice shinny knife on my atoma diamond plate and grinding away behind the edge, but if the knife belonged to someone else, I might still start it off on the EP...

Mucho Bocho
09-28-2012, 09:03 AM
BI, I get it now. I'm not sure that i've actually thinned a knife before. I'm going to have to play with the EP a bit more cause I aint going to invest another grand in bench stones. I have a 400/1000 combo shun bench stone. Think that would help or is the DMT the way to go?

Mucho Bocho
09-28-2012, 09:57 AM
I just made this gig to assist. Hand-sharpening people please get that grin off your face. :happymug:

Maybe not convenient but at least its possible

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/IMG_2349_2.jpg

bieniek
09-28-2012, 11:28 AM
The problem is though, that with hand you adjust the angle to the blade, but here you would have to adjust the blade to the angle, which gets especially difficult near the tip.

Simplest example i think is single bevel knife. To thin it you have to follow the curve and shape of the shinogi ---> lamination piece of bevel.

As to the stones, you dont have anything near a grand for a grand results. Edge of off that shun stone should be great well stropped.

Just try to thin with the 400 grit side. Place the blade flat on the stone, appy pressure with your fingers just where you want the meta to be removed [0.5cm from edge?] and do a few moves.
Personally i think its very rewarding.

Mucho Bocho
09-28-2012, 01:14 PM
You're on. Maybe I get me ex Mac I knives back and mess with those first

Cadillac J
09-28-2012, 04:03 PM
I aint going to invest another grand in bench stones.

No need to spend that much money even if you did decide to. My setup is simple and consists of 3 stones (600, 1200, 5000), I don't use strops/compounds anymore either....so the total cost new would be about $170 and you can get edges that would battle against anyone elses. Not to mention I've been using these same stones for years, sharpened what feels like thousands of times, and they still have tons of use left in them.

I am a free-hander because I think its fast, fun and flexible...just my opinion, and I have no problems with device users at all. In fact, I've been into EDC and folding knives recently much more so than kitchen knives...but now I've realized I don't get as much enjoyment sharpening these 2-4" blades which also typically have more belly than a fullsize gyuto, so I contemplated getting an EP or Wicked Edge for these specifically (as well as friend/family knives). Just can't bring myself to do it yet, especially when I don't need to.

Mucho Bocho
09-28-2012, 05:12 PM
Cadillac, was wonder where you've been, not seen much from you lately. Thanks for the advise. so a 600 beson, 1200 bester and 5K Siue Hara is what you're thinking? I've laready got a DMT XC flattener