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View Full Version : Pass Around for 260mm Gyuto in 52100 Schedule



Marko Tsourkan
10-13-2012, 05:47 AM
I finally put together a list of people who signed up for a pass-around. I will start the pass-around with US members, following by Canadian and then European members. I am going to do five participants at a time.

The fist five participants are the following:
AndrewH (Home)
Theory (Pro)
Sachem Allison (Pro)
Muchobocho (Home)
Brainsausage (Pro)

After these five, if the knife doesn't need any repair, it will go onto the next 5 US members.

Just want to remind you of some of the conditions:

- One week per participant
- Sharpen only if you consider yourself a decent sharpener
- If a blade is damaged, it has to be returned to me right away. If a damage is minor, then it could be fixed by a participant, but I need to be notified about it beforehand.
- A participant is responsible for a postage (insured for a full value) to the next person on the list.
-Please oil the knife before sending it onto the next participant.
-I want a participant to compare my knife to his/her best performing knife from Japanese and US makers. Areas of comparison should include sharpen-ability (please see conditions above), edge retention, edge maintenance (with a strop), geometry, profile, food release, handle comfort, fun to use, etc. Anything one can comment on, would be appreciated.

As these are still experimental knives, with experimental heat treatment and grind, there is still much to learn from other people's experience with them.

In short, I look for an objective feedback/review and expect a constructive criticism. If you don't want to post it in public, send it to me in private.

This knife is heat-treated for a best edge stability and sharpness and a very good wear resistance, and is about 62RC hard. I can push the hardness to about 63RC without compromising edge stability and sharpness. This will result in additional wear resistance, but this option will be only available upon request, as it is much harder to hand-finish a knife in that hardness and would require an additional effort on my part.

The knife will come with a saya (for protection in shipping and transporting) and a felt strop with 1M diamond spray applied. It might need to be re-applied periodically.

Thank you.

M

Marko Tsourkan
10-20-2012, 09:50 PM
The knife should be arriving at Andrew H on Monday, October 22.

Theory is next on the list. The knife should be insured for $400 while shipping between participants.

Look forward to your reviews, folks.

M

ecchef
10-21-2012, 04:52 AM
Hmmmm..discriminating against Asia, eh? :eyebrow::D

Cutty Sharp
10-21-2012, 05:54 AM
Hmmmm..discriminating against Asia, eh? :eyebrow::D

Hmm... I noticed the same. US, Canada, Europe... and that's it.

Maybe we should just stop selling you guys in the west our knives and stones? Would that be nice?

Marko Tsourkan
10-21-2012, 06:51 AM
No, no discriminating, but for logistical reasons, there need to be more than a couple of participants interested. Perhaps combining Japan and Korea with some Australian folks, but I don't think there were any Australians in the list.

Bu logistical reasons I mean shipping, customs and so forth.



M

Von blewitt
10-21-2012, 07:01 AM
I am in Australia, I didn't register my interest because I thought I was to far out of the loop! If it is a possibility I would love to be involved! Pro kitchen

Marko Tsourkan
10-21-2012, 07:06 AM
It's a possibility, but the cost and customs situation will have to be researched before hand. USA is probably the most friendlier country when it comes to customs.

If you want to spend time and gather information, I would definitely consider Asia Pacific pass-around/s.

M

Dusty
10-21-2012, 07:09 AM
Me too, Von Blewett, exactly the same story. Though it was a bridge too far and didn't speak up. I've felt this way about this and a few other pass-arounds as well.

Dusty
10-21-2012, 07:11 AM
It's a possibility, but the cost and customs situation will have to be researched before hand. US is probably the most friendlier country when it comes to customs.

If you want to spend time and gather information, I would definitely consider Asia Pacific pass-around/s.

M

I'm not one-hundred percent sure, but I think that customs *shouldn't* be too expensive, but shipping and insurance could be costly, especially on the way back to the US.

Von blewitt
10-21-2012, 07:16 AM
Customs fees into Australia only applies if the Package is valued at more than $1000 shipping and insurance would be costly, maybe if there were a few participants the cost could be shared. I will look into it further

Marko Tsourkan
10-21-2012, 08:01 AM
I'm not one-hundred percent sure, but I think that customs *shouldn't* be too expensive, but shipping and insurance could be costly, especially on the way back to the US.

Shipping and insurance cost will be the responsibility of the participants - a price of participation if you will.

I ask that the knife be insured for $400 - less that it costs new, but on part what it should be valued used.

M

ecchef
10-21-2012, 09:14 AM
Just teasing ya Marko.
But, if an Asia detour did happen, it might make sense for me to be 1st & last on the list. My addy isn't foreign so I can ship USPS at domestic rates.

Marko Tsourkan
10-21-2012, 10:15 AM
I am a game as long as there are more than just a couple people in the Asia Pacific region and as long as you guys take care of getting all information on costs, customs, etc.

As of this morning, there already a couple of new people in Australia interested, and hopefully a few more in the coming months.

M

RobinW
10-21-2012, 11:32 AM
If there are anyspotsopen on the europelist, i'd like to be in!

Thanks

Robin

Marko Tsourkan
10-21-2012, 12:11 PM
You guys will have to work out the customs (Scandinavian customs are some of the most feared in the Western world), as the $400 insurance is mandatory.

Other than that, I see no reason not to include folks. It might be a while before the knife makes there thought.

M

Marko Tsourkan
10-21-2012, 01:11 PM
It has been brought to my attention that requiring mandatory insurance might signal to customs the value of the item and lead to custom duties, which in Europe could be in the area of 21% or higher.

If you think it is a good idea, I am willing to include a letter stating that this is a sample work sent out for evaluation purpose and that it will be returned back to me in the end.

Understating the value of the knife is to risk exposing participants to liabilities in case the knife is lost or damaged in the process. I would like to avoid that.

This knife is not any different than my custom, with same material cost and labor input, so I would like to recoup some cost once the passaround is over.

I am also hoping that this will lead to a good experience for everybody involved.

M

RobinW
10-21-2012, 02:16 PM
Good points.
I'll talk to the people atwork. We ship "engineering samples" between our offices globally everyday. Someone should know.

Thanks

brainsausage
10-21-2012, 11:19 PM
Just wanted to offer my belated thanks for including me in the first leg of this. I've been pretty busy at work and missed this post. Hope things work out for the out of staters.

WillC
10-22-2012, 03:06 PM
Putting Sample on the package doesn't cut it with customs, if there is a value on it they add customs charges and a handling fee. So either leave off the value and make sure it is covered with the courier or, There is a number code for labelling packages which will be going in and back out of the country again. Someone mentioned this on BB, i'll try and find the post with the code.

Cutty Sharp
10-22-2012, 03:10 PM
Incidentally, someone shipped me a knife recently with the 'commercial sample' label and it spent about 2 weeks in Korean Customs. Same thing - with a $400 value and handling, charges would have been approaching $100.

WillC
10-22-2012, 03:29 PM
Here we go, for stuff that is going in and out of the uk at least, could apply to a pass around knife for inspection and return I would think, (though would normally be used for a fix and return), package should be labelled as so..
"Temporary Admission Notice 200"
Here is all the small print from HMC.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000220&propertyType=document#P258_32591

Marko Tsourkan
10-22-2012, 03:46 PM
Good to know.

Perhaps then the pass-around will be limited to the US, Canada and Australia as shipping to Europe might simply be not worth the hassle.

M

Marko Tsourkan
10-23-2012, 09:06 AM
The knife is at a local post office at Andrew H, so hopefully it will be picked up or redelivered soon, so we can officially start the pass-around.

As this is my first public pass-around, I got to say I am excited and a little nervous at the same time. :)

M

Andrew H
10-23-2012, 09:55 AM
The knife is at a local post office at Andrew H, so hopefully it will be picked up or redelivered soon, so we can officially start the pass-around.

As this is my first public pass-around, I got to say I am excited and a little nervous at the same time. :)

M

It will be picked up later today. I can't wait!

Edit: When I went to pick this one up they said they didn't have it. They called the mail man on his route and he said he had a package he was delivering. I come home and it's an amazon box, not a Marko box. Talk to the mail man again and the post office _does_ have it. It's a wonder USPS is going out of business.
Tomorrow I should have it.

Marko Tsourkan
10-24-2012, 05:50 PM
USPS tracking says it is delivered, so lets hope it indeed IS.

M

Andrew H
10-24-2012, 07:20 PM
It is indeed, Marko. It took them long enough to find it in the back of the USPS office, though.

Marko Tsourkan
10-24-2012, 08:10 PM
Great!.

So let's say as of tomorrow (10/26/2012) you have a week to keep it.

Thanks,

M

markenki
10-25-2012, 12:24 AM
So let's say as of tomorrow (10/26/2012) you have a week to keep it.

But who's counting? :)

kalaeb
10-25-2012, 12:36 AM
USPS tracking says it is delivered, so lets hope it indeed IS.

M

That means nothing. Usps tracking is a joke. I have had one stating delivered, only to be missing for 5 weeks.



Looking forward to the review.

Marko Tsourkan
10-25-2012, 07:35 AM
But who's counting? :)

I am. :)

Marko Tsourkan
11-01-2012, 08:26 AM
Knife should be on its way to TheoRy this morning. Thanks, Andrew H for a prompt dispatch and for taking part in this project.

M

Andrew H
11-02-2012, 10:22 AM
Knife should be on its way to TheoRy this morning. Thanks, Andrew H for a prompt dispatch and for taking part in this project.

M

Indeed it was sent off yesterday. Tracking says Rick will have it on Saturday. Thanks again for doing this and my thoughts will be posted over the weekend.

Marko Tsourkan
11-03-2012, 10:47 AM
Thanks, Andrew -

May I ask that your comments be posted in a Reviews section of the forum?

Marko

Marko Tsourkan
11-11-2012, 03:58 PM
Knife finally arrived at Rick (Theory) and as tomorrow, 11/12/12, Rick will have one week to test it.

I will ask that after this, the knife is shipped to me, so I can tweak it for recommendations, and then I will drop it of with Son in NYC in person.

M

Marko Tsourkan
11-29-2012, 03:31 PM
Got the knife from Theory. Will do a couple of suggested tweaks on it and deliver it to Son. Probably early next week, when I am in the city.

M

knyfeknerd
11-29-2012, 06:35 PM
Get some of Son's hooch while you're there.

Marko Tsourkan
12-05-2012, 08:45 AM
I still have some. :) Good stuff, so I savor it in small quantities. :)

sachem allison
12-05-2012, 02:44 PM
give me a date and I'll have a bottle waiting.

Marko Tsourkan
12-05-2012, 11:19 PM
12/31 around 11:45pm

sachem allison
12-05-2012, 11:31 PM
sounds good, I should be there.

Marko Tsourkan
12-06-2012, 12:49 PM
Good.

I am going to drop the pass around with you on Tuesday or Wednesday. Will PM you over the weekend as I know more.

M

Marko Tsourkan
03-05-2013, 03:35 PM
OK, I need to resume passaround for the 260mm.

I am going to make a new knife to reflect the changes I have made in the last several months.

I will give you a choice of 52100 or mystery carbon, as they are comparable. A2 is a bit different when it comes to sharpness, so it is out. Mystery carbon is more reactive than 52100 so it will have to have a forced patina. Not sure if that is an issue for pro folks on the passround list.

So, in short, let me know what to make - 52100 or mystery carbon.

Thanks,

Marko

PS: I pulled the knife from the pass-around as I felt that I was making changes and that the knife in circulation would not be a good representative of my current work. I now grind knives thicker and heftier than I used to and I made some changes to handle design.

brainsausage
03-05-2013, 03:41 PM
As a pro I'd prefer the 52100. Thanks Marko.

-Josh

Chefdog
03-05-2013, 03:46 PM
Marko,
I would love to be part of this passaround. 52100 would be my preference, since you've been working to perfect your HT for quite a while. I'm a pro, but I teach now, so I wouldnt be putting the knife through tons of prep, but it would see quite a diverse set of ingredients.

Marko Tsourkan
03-05-2013, 03:52 PM
I am totally cool with 52100. I threw in mystery carbon as it is a new exciting steel for me, but 52100 is definitely a safer bet and it has very good wear resistance properties. So, 52100 it is.

Igasho
03-05-2013, 03:59 PM
I would love to try the 52100 if I'm able to join the next passaround.

turbochef422
03-05-2013, 04:24 PM
I would live to try it if available. I am a pro in the Hudson valley so if you want to finish with me I could drop it off to you. Thanks.

Marko Tsourkan
03-05-2013, 04:44 PM
Guys,
I have to stick to the list, but after I might pass it around a second time provided it is in a good shape.

M

bschwartzcooks
03-05-2013, 08:30 PM
I am a pro in the Boston area and would be honored to try the knife out and give you a great honest review of its performance. Thanks!

ThEoRy
03-05-2013, 10:58 PM
Did I already try this knife or is this the different grind you were telling me about?

sachem allison
03-05-2013, 11:37 PM
mystery steel, ain't I next?

Marko Tsourkan
03-06-2013, 12:02 AM
Rick, you tried the first one. I am going to send out a second one that is closer how I grind now (a bit thicker and D handle is a bit refined).

Son, looks like it will be 52100. However, if you like it, you probably will like mystery carbon as well. I also owe you a knife, thought it might be a while.

M

sachem allison
03-06-2013, 01:10 AM
you don't owe me anything but, if your offering, I'll wait as long as it takes. gotta a couple of new batches of hooch waiting for you.

mpukas
03-09-2013, 05:24 PM
I know you said you sticking to the original list, but I'd love to be considered for a pass-around of this knife, either 52100 or mystery.

EdipisReks
04-01-2013, 03:37 AM
i would love to be added on to the tail end of a pass around, if possible.

Lefty
04-02-2013, 10:44 AM
Son, why you never send me hooch, no more? You find new lover?