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spinblue
11-27-2012, 08:12 PM
Yum!!! Just eating it out of the husk. I haven't even looked for recipes yet. :)

brainsausage
11-27-2012, 09:12 PM
Yum!!! Just eating it out of the husk. I haven't even looked for recipes yet. :)

Weird timing, I just cracked my first batch, I was gonna make a post about it... You stole my thunder!!!!

Lucretia
11-27-2012, 09:14 PM
I have to find some of that and give it a try.

knyfeknerd
11-27-2012, 09:16 PM
Yeah, I've never had it. How would you describe the flavor?

brainsausage
11-27-2012, 09:23 PM
I have to find some of that and give it a try.

It's deceptively simple to make, but also a big pain in the a$$. You have to keep whole heads of garlic at about 130-40 degrees Fahrenheit, for about 30-40 days. I just vaccum sealed them and threw them in the restaurants dehydrator, which is always on and at that temp anyways. But it'd be a real ***** to try and pull that off otherwise...

brainsausage
11-27-2012, 09:28 PM
Yeah, I've never had it. How would you describe the flavor?

It's very akin to roasted garlic, but sweeter, and earthier, almost curry-like. It also has a touch of that ferment tang, but none of the raw garlic sting. And the texture is really fun, very fudge-esque.

Zwiefel
11-27-2012, 10:53 PM
Never heard of this....sounds interesting though.

What are common applications?

brainsausage
11-27-2012, 10:55 PM
Never heard of this....sounds interesting though.

What are common applications?

Making stuff tastier;)

Zwiefel
11-27-2012, 11:08 PM
:slaphead:

spinblue
11-28-2012, 08:55 PM
It's very akin to roasted garlic, but sweeter, and earthier, almost curry-like. It also has a touch of that ferment tang, but none of the raw garlic sting. And the texture is really fun, very fudge-esque.

this^^^^^

Sorry for the thunder-steal. :( When it hit the door, I ate a whole head as a snack.

Sticky like fudge, but fingertips licking good. I looked into making it myself, but couldn't see how I could do it economically. Good on you!

AFKitchenknivesguy
11-28-2012, 10:58 PM
So technically you could sous vide it?

knyfeknerd
11-28-2012, 11:11 PM
I wonder what the botulism risk would be?
Any servsafe/HAACP, etc nerds out there that could put my worries to rest?
I know botulism is a time-temp kinda thing.

apicius9
11-28-2012, 11:23 PM
I wonder what the botulism risk would be?
Any servsafe/HAACP, etc nerds out there that could put my worries to rest?
I know botulism is a time-temp kinda thing.


That's what I was thinking. If I didn't trust you guys know what you are doing, I would probably call it 'rotten garlic' and throw it away...

Stefan

knyfeknerd
11-28-2012, 11:53 PM
An oxygen free environment is key for botulism,so airtight sealing of a bag worries me.

brainsausage
11-29-2012, 12:01 AM
70-120 is the 'danger zone' for all food borne illness causing critters according to servsafe(which is less than reliable, as both the FDA and the USDA have conflicting studies in regards to a wide range of foodborne pathogens, but lets not go down THAT rabbit hole). Botulism is kind of a curious beast, as it tends to produce its highly poisonous toxins moreso when competing bacteria are present. You can have an abundance of botulism present in your system, and it won't harm you. Until it feels threatened and starts producing said toxins. Which are actually fairly temperature sensitive. All that being said- garlic is fairly acidic(very few pathogens like that), and you're fermenting it at 140 degrees, which is an acceptable temp by servsafe standards to hold food(actually its 135 degrees, and that five degrees makes a big difference in terms of reducing pathogen growth over an extended period).

knyfeknerd
11-29-2012, 12:07 AM
YES! I knew you would be able to answer! Didn't you recently take servsafe?
I didn't even consider the "holding temp" guidelines.
I would feel safe being your black garlic taste-tester.

brainsausage
11-29-2012, 12:08 AM
So technically you could sous vide it?

I thought of this earlier today too. But it would call for a very prolonged use of one's immersion circulator. 30-40 days of non stop activity. That's a lot of action in terms of overall life span of the unit. Pretty sure they weren't designed to be used in that manner... Not to mention its out of commission until your ferment is done(unless you have other projects that utilize said temp of course...).

ajhuff
11-29-2012, 12:14 AM
How the hell did somebody stumble upon this delectable?

-AJ

brainsausage
11-29-2012, 12:25 AM
YES! I knew you would be able to answer! Didn't you recently take servsafe?
I didn't even consider the "holding temp" guidelines.
I would feel safe being your black garlic taste-tester.

I did! And thank you for remembering btw. Finished the test in 10 minutes(we were allotted 45), and passed with a 94( I probably could've done better but I was hungry, and there wasn't any beer nearby ). I've kind of made it my mission nowadays to spread the fermented/cured foods as being more than safe to eat. It's tried and true. A lot of this stuff has been around for too long to mention, and its even safer to practice now, as we understand(to some degree) how and why it works. And it's frickin delicious! I can't wait till I get computron type device in the spring, as I have waaaaay too many pics of cured meats, and lacto fermented veg/fruit to share with you guys! Last thing I'll say in this stupid long post- I recently had a terrible meal at a local restaurant. Woke up the next day with a very unhappy/sour stomach. Not quite 'food poisoning' in terms of the emergency room, but uncomfortable nonetheless. Went into work that morning, ate about a quarter cup of our house fermented sauerkraut, and literally FIFTEEN minutes later I felt fine. Fermented foods are amazing. Ok- rant officially over:D

brainsausage
11-29-2012, 12:30 AM
How the hell did somebody stumble upon this delectable?

-AJ

My guess would be, a fairly hot arid clime, where the local agriculturists left a crop in the ground for too long. Garlic doesn't grow that far below the top soil, and if it was a particularly hot month? And you saw some local fauna chowing on it? Just my guess.

apicius9
11-29-2012, 12:47 AM
Went into work that morning, ate about a quarter cup of our house fermented sauerkraut, and literally FIFTEEN minutes later I felt fine. Fermented foods are amazing. Ok- rant officially over:D

A German nutritionist friend of mine always said that sauerkraut was so healthy, it should be sold in pharmacies ;)

Stefan

brainsausage
11-29-2012, 12:58 AM
A German nutritionist friend of mine always said that sauerkraut was so healthy, it should be sold in pharmacies ;)

Stefan

It's true! I swear!!! Helluva a lot better than those over the counter so called remedies. Ah crap, now I'm starting to sound hippie-esque... Just to clarify- I own guns, and use dead animals to make my living! Thread totally derailed...

franzb69
11-29-2012, 06:15 AM
that and kimchi =D

probiotics they are.

ajhuff
11-29-2012, 08:33 AM
My guess would be, a fairly hot arid clime, where the local agriculturists left a crop in the ground for too long. Garlic doesn't grow that far below the top soil, and if it was a particularly hot month? And you saw some local fauna chowing on it? Just my guess.

Oh. I was under the impression that it was manufactured not naturally occurring.

-AJ

mr drinky
11-29-2012, 08:50 AM
I did! And thank you for remembering btw. Finished the test in 10 minutes(we were allotted 45), and passed with a 94( I probably could've done better but I was hungry, and there wasn't any beer nearby ). I've kind of made it my mission nowadays to spread the fermented/cured foods as being more than safe to eat. It's tried and true. A lot of this stuff has been around for too long to mention, and its even safer to practice now, as we understand(to some degree) how and why it works. And it's frickin delicious! I can't wait till I get computron type device in the spring, as I have waaaaay too many pics of cured meats, and lacto fermented veg/fruit to share with you guys! Last thing I'll say in this stupid long post- I recently had a terrible meal at a local restaurant. Woke up the next day with a very unhappy/sour stomach. Not quite 'food poisoning' in terms of the emergency room, but uncomfortable nonetheless. Went into work that morning, ate about a quarter cup of our house fermented sauerkraut, and literally FIFTEEN minutes later I felt fine. Fermented foods are amazing. Ok- rant officially over:D

Interesting stuff. I've been wanting to go to one of Sandor Katz's (aka Sanderkraut's) fermentation clinics. He was also on Fresh Air (http://www.npr.org/2012/06/13/154914381/fermentation-when-food-goes-bad-but-stays-good) fairly recently which was a good listen.

Btw, sort of off-topic but on food-borne illness still. About a decade ago after a few Disney cruises got massive outbreaks of food poisoning they determined which foods were the cause BUT they also found out that those who ate the contaminated food AND drank white wine during the meal were not affected. Apparently, some organization then mocked up a pig stomach and tested how wine inhibits pathogens in the stomach. White wine was the most effective because of the high acidity. Red wine was less effective, but still helped. They didn't test other alcohols, but said that there were probably benefits to other alcohols too. Wine, another good fermented product ;)

k.

spinblue
11-29-2012, 09:20 AM
An oxygen free environment is key for botulism,so airtight sealing of a bag worries me.

But isn't this exactly how (duck) confit is achieved? The fat is poured over the legs and the air tight seal prevents bacteria from occurring.

spinblue
11-29-2012, 09:23 AM
How the hell did somebody stumble upon this delectable? -AJ

I don't remember exactly where/how I found out about it. But I'm always looking for new things to try.

AFKitchenknivesguy
11-29-2012, 12:17 PM
It's true! I swear!!! Helluva a lot better than those over the counter so called remedies. Ah crap, now I'm starting to sound hippie-esque... Just to clarify- I own guns, and use dead animals to make my living! Thread totally derailed...

Nothing wrong with being well rounded. Actually it's preferable.

ETA: dang, I just used my 556 post count for this! (AR15 round caliber for those uninitiated)

brainsausage
11-29-2012, 12:39 PM
Interesting stuff. I've been wanting to go to one of Sandor Katz's (aka Sanderkraut's) fermentation clinics. He was also on Fresh Air (http://www.npr.org/2012/06/13/154914381/fermentation-when-food-goes-bad-but-stays-good) fairly recently which was a good listen.

Btw, sort of off-topic but on food-borne illness still. About a decade ago after a few Disney cruises got massive outbreaks of food poisoning they determined which foods were the cause BUT they also found out that those who ate the contaminated food AND drank white wine during the meal were not affected. Apparently, some organization then mocked up a pig stomach and tested how wine inhibits pathogens in the stomach. White wine was the most effective because of the high acidity. Red wine was less effective, but still helped. They didn't test other alcohols, but said that there were probably benefits to other alcohols too. Wine, another good fermented product ;)

k.

One of my co-workers just picked up his newest book, pretty fun reading(I've always enjoyed your sig line btw).

There's some interesting reading in the modernist cuisine regarding wine and pathogens. Apparently it's especially effective when combined with thymol. I have a fermented sausage book that has a chart in it written by the Chinese version of the FDA, showcasing a sampling of herbs and spices and their effectiveness against a wide variety of pathogens. Very interesting stuff.

brainsausage
11-29-2012, 12:47 PM
Nothing wrong with being well rounded. Actually it's preferable.

ETA: dang, I just used my 556 post count for this! (AR15 round caliber for those uninitiated)

Awesome:D

brainsausage
11-29-2012, 12:52 PM
But isn't this exactly how (duck) confit is achieved? The fat is poured over the legs and the air tight seal prevents bacteria from occurring.

The confit is typically cooked for many hours at a low heat (225-275 degrees) in fat, and cooled in said fat. So the heat destroys most of the harmful pathogens, and leaving it sealed in the fat doesn't allow the duck to come into contact with airborne pathogens after cooking. It also slows rot causing bacteria, and enzymes in the meat that kick start the breakdown of the tissues(cooking also denatures those enzymes as well). Hence the preservation aspect(curing the duck before cooking will lengthen said preservation even further).

brainsausage
11-29-2012, 12:56 PM
Oh. I was under the impression that it was manufactured not naturally occurring.

-AJ

I'd equate it more to raising livestock, than manufacturing. Except with bacteria, instead of animals:D

spinblue
11-29-2012, 09:56 PM
The confit is typically cooked for many hours at a low heat (225-275 degrees) in fat, and cooled in said fat. So the heat destroys most of the harmful pathogens, and leaving it sealed in the fat doesn't allow the duck to come into contact with airborne pathogens after cooking. It also slows rot causing bacteria, and enzymes in the meat that kick start the breakdown of the tissues(cooking also denatures those enzymes as well). Hence the preservation aspect(curing the duck before cooking will lengthen said preservation even further).

Thanks, I understood the confit process, but this certainly helps the insight on how the black garlic comes about. Thank you.

chinacats
11-29-2012, 11:26 PM
It's deceptively simple to make, but also a big pain in the a$$. You have to keep whole heads of garlic at about 130-40 degrees Fahrenheit, for about 30-40 days. I just vaccum sealed them and threw them in the restaurants dehydrator, which is always on and at that temp anyways. But it'd be a real ***** to try and pull that off otherwise...

I am going to try this in my dehydrator, would a zip-lock bag work or should I try to wrap this some other way?

marc4pt0
11-30-2012, 08:49 AM
Thanks, I understood the confit process, but this certainly helps the insight on how the black garlic comes about. Thank you.

Also, pouring fat over duck (thus completely submerging it), doesn't mean said duck is now in an air free our oxygen free environment. The duck itself, especially the bones, have air/oxygen in them. It's the cooking/confit process that helps eliminate the air. Of course when making duck confit the fat should never bubble, but the stray occasional bubble breaking the surface it's actually the air leaking out.
Hours later, when your confit is finished and cooled in it's own fat, then it's air free.

Schtoo
11-30-2012, 11:23 AM
It's very akin to roasted garlic, but sweeter, and earthier, almost curry-like. It also has a touch of that ferment tang, but none of the raw garlic sting. And the texture is really fun, very fudge-esque.

First time I had it (this week!) I didn't even know what it was...

Stuff we have is very sweet, almost kuro-sato like, and the slight garlic kick only comes in after it's down the gullet. Not smelly afterwards either, but you know it was garlic. Co-pilot stuck it in tonight's pasta which worked, but a waste I think. Better off as a kind of side pickle (tsuke-mono) for my taste.

Very unique and unusual stuff.

Stu.

brainsausage
11-30-2012, 02:43 PM
I am going to try this in my dehydrator, would a zip-lock bag work or should I try to wrap this some other way?

That should work fine. You're basically just trying to keep the garlic from drying out, whilst it ferments. I dunno if you have any farmer's market style action where you are, but the better quality the garlic, the better your end result will be.

chinacats
12-01-2012, 12:46 AM
That should work fine. You're basically just trying to keep the garlic from drying out, whilst it ferments. I dunno if you have any farmer's market style action where you are, but the better quality the garlic, the better your end result will be.

Thanks, I am going for it with the best quality I could find locally...here that happens to be Whole Foods.