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EdipisReks
12-01-2012, 12:22 AM
these might have some potential. (http://www.knifecenter.com/item/KSVG0008/Shun-Blue-Steel-Kiritsuke-Knife-VG0008)

franzb69
12-01-2012, 12:50 AM
good thing they stopped using that accursed d handle. lol. i'm a lefty and that's pretty much my problem with some of the shun lines. and at that price, looks about just right.

i'd consider the kiritsuke and the honesuki if they came in lefty flavors.

knyfeknerd
12-01-2012, 12:55 AM
meh

Lefty
12-01-2012, 12:56 AM
I'm telling you. People are always doing research for these companies, and whether we know it or not, they are listening to us - the REAL know-it-alls!

I like the look of these...actually, I like them a lot.

apicius9
12-01-2012, 01:04 AM
Maybe one of us is a secret spy for them? ;) The actually don't look bad IMHO. I like the petty the best, nice thine tip for fine work.

Stefan

JBroida
12-01-2012, 01:12 AM
they were a collab with chris consentino... his guys have been using them for a bit, but i happen to know that they are using other knives now ;)

Lefty
12-01-2012, 01:27 AM
Haha. Well, so much for that.

NEEEXXXXTTT!!!

AFKitchenknivesguy
12-01-2012, 01:33 AM
Take the Shun logo off them and they may look ok.

tk59
12-01-2012, 01:46 AM
San mai? Are these single bevel, faux single bevel knives or double bevel with single bevel knife profiles? I guess they are double bevel. 4.5" honesuki?

labor of love
12-01-2012, 02:16 AM
is sur la table going to carry them? id like to play with one. probably wouldnt purchase one though.

Miles
12-01-2012, 02:21 AM
I expect they'll fall into the two latter categories. I don't oft watch FN, but I do tend to tune in if someone interesting is featured. On the occasions I've seen Chris Cosentino using knives, he seems to be wielding a Nenox kiritsuke more often than not. If he's teaming up with Kai Shun, I guess we'll see something different moving forward. If they approach the knives the same way they did the Shun "single bevel" knives, they'll be anything but traditional single bevel. They'll have the characteristics and geometry of the single bevel knife with a very distinct western style double bevel cutting edge on it.

SpikeC
12-01-2012, 03:12 PM
As they are bead blasting the blade road, good luck with maintenance.

tk59
12-01-2012, 03:37 PM
As they are bead blasting the blade road, good luck with maintenance.Sure won't look like OOTB after the first thinning session.

keithsaltydog
12-01-2012, 05:06 PM
Not a bad looking knife,looks like a single bevel,if it is similar in geometry to their VG-10 Yanagi,then the hollow grind is very shallow.

The bead blast looks to be more in the middle between the top of the single bevel & the blade road.You can sharpen a SB to a polished edge wt. out messing up the bead blast for a time anyway.

JBroida
12-01-2012, 07:42 PM
not single bevel last time i saw one

stevenStefano
12-01-2012, 07:44 PM
They do a menkiri as well which is rather strange

Dave Martell
12-01-2012, 08:36 PM
Looks like a good idea that wasn't done quite right. It seems like a big dog is (at least) paying attention.

keithsaltydog
12-01-2012, 11:37 PM
not single bevel last time i saw one

Have not seen one yet,only the picture,that kiritsuke I thought it was a high shinoge line true SB kiritsuke guess not,but why that high line on the blade face?Are these blue steel Shuns a new release?

tk59
12-01-2012, 11:48 PM
Have not seen one yet,only the picture,that kiritsuke I thought it was a high shinoge line true SB kiritsuke guess not,but why that high line on the blade face?Are these blue steel Shuns a new release?"San mai" and "single bevel" don't mix.

JBroida
12-02-2012, 12:42 AM
yeah... they are new... i saw some early ones here in LA a while back. the look is just a look. thats what shun does best ;)

keithsaltydog
12-02-2012, 12:50 AM
"San mai" and "single bevel" don't mix.

Yes,I should have known:dazed:

Zwiefel
12-02-2012, 01:01 AM
"San mai" and "single bevel" don't mix.

As a purely academic point....Not certain how you are using the term...but my understanding is that San Mai is where the cladding does not cover the spine. In any case, single bevel can have cladding.
http://zknives.com/images/knives/misc/cladtypes.jpg

mhlee
12-02-2012, 01:24 AM
"San-mai" means three pieces. "Mai" is a term used in Japanese to count thin or flat items, such as sheets of paper, or slices of bread. That's why "san-mai" is used to described double-beveled clad knives because there are three layers - two outside layers and the core.

I guess single beveled knives could be made with three layers and thus, be "san-mai", but, from what I understand, traditional single beveled knives are made with two layers.

quantumcloud509
12-02-2012, 01:30 AM
yeah... they are new... i saw some early ones here in LA a while back. the look is just a look. thats what shun does best ;)

:plus1:

keithsaltydog
12-02-2012, 02:32 AM
Heat treatment as most would agree is very important.Since I have sharpened & repaired quite a few VG-10 Shuns,chipping broken tips etc.I attributed it to knife abuse.I still think that abuse is the major cause of chipped & dull Shuns.

I was wondering if because they produce large numbers of Shuns,that perhaps their HT is not as good as it could be.Yeh they are good for shiny hammered look wt. damascus patterns.Most have too much rocker for my taste.At least that Fake Kiritsuke Gyuto has a flatter edge profile than most Shun's.:whistling:

The hekler
12-02-2012, 03:07 AM
I still don't understand why Shuns get so much hate here. Half of us probably got into Japanese knives with either Shuns or Globals I think it's great that they are out there and so readily available. Yes when you become more knowledgable you find that there are better knives for less money but they serve as a great bridge for many of us who end up finding joy in using Japanese kitchen knives. Yes they are over priced for what they provide but that just shows what good marketing can do. Most here agree that you could have a custom maker such as Devin or Pierre make a knife just as good as a Kramer for a tenth the price but Kramer doesn't get half the flak Shuns get.

franzb69
12-02-2012, 04:24 AM
it's just that there are more people who own shuns and globals than knife knuts.

that's why chipping is more prevalent since there are more shuns and globals around.

it's just that we know better.

=D

Lefty
12-02-2012, 12:07 PM
I have a Global that I bought off a member for "testing purposes", and I determined that I actually don't hate using a Global, and in fact, they are solid knives; This is despite what we all say about them! Shuns, from my experience, are just as good, but as we all know, the profile is "off".

I attribute the chipping issues seen with Shuns with the fact that a hard, more brittle knife (like anything in the 60hrc range) is not suited for rocking, yet Shun's profiles generally are. Rocking leads to lots of excess force going into the board, and this is compounded by lateral torsion, wobbly contact and a false sense that the blade will go through just about anything. To sum it up, I don't think their HT is awful (done en masse, yes), but when you combine a less than perfect HT with hard steel, a rock promoting profile and the hands of the (even slightly) ignorant, you get big, wicked chips and a reputation for chipping.

Regardless, I'm happy to see "the big boys" paying attention and making an effort to enter this market. Zwilling has done a fine job, and everyone else is trying to follow suit.

NO ChoP!
12-02-2012, 12:49 PM
I find it odd that Globals have been the same for a decade, yet there's a new Shun line everyday. A guy I know just payed a pretty penny for a Shun Fuji gyuto. The handle is spectacular, the steel is great, the blade finish is gorgeous; but there is no taper to speak of, a thick tip, odd profile, and too thick behind the edge....they are so close. Maybe instead of trying to lure those more knowledgeable with new steels, they should focus on actually making a good knife.

keithsaltydog
12-02-2012, 01:11 PM
Yeh,most damage is fr. abuse,not the steel or HT.Alot of persons go from cheap stainless or Henkles etc.which are softer steel that can take more banging around than a thinner harder Japan blade.When the tip of a shun breaks off prying apart frozen chix thighs you can't blame it on the knife.

mhlee
12-02-2012, 01:17 PM
When the tip of a shun breaks off prying apart frozen chix thighs you can't blame it on the knife.

That's why people should stick with buying Globals instead of Shun! Nearly abuse proof! :biggrin:


Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

WiscoNole
12-02-2012, 11:57 PM
lost any interest I had at stainless clad

EdipisReks
12-03-2012, 12:01 AM
lost any interest I had at stainless clad

that's silly.

WiscoNole
12-03-2012, 12:03 AM
not if you like patina

labor of love
12-03-2012, 12:09 AM
not if you like patina
im right there with ya

EdipisReks
12-03-2012, 12:16 AM
not if you like patina

why even buy a knife then, if it's your major criteria? a sheet of plain steel patinas just fine. i have almost all carbon knives. i like patina. my Gengetsu, which is stainless clad, is the best cutter i own. it's a knife. cutting is what's important.

labor of love
12-03-2012, 01:56 AM
thats a little harsh. im just not into san mai for several reasons, plus patina is cool. cutting ability is ofcourse the most important factor when selecting a knife but in the $250-375 price range theres alot of choices and room for personal preferences no?

EdipisReks
12-03-2012, 02:05 AM
personal opinion? i thought we were all facets of the same knife whole.

labor of love
12-03-2012, 02:26 AM
if you say so.

EdipisReks
12-03-2012, 02:29 AM
humor really doesn't exist on the internet.

chinacats
12-03-2012, 03:05 AM
:lol2:

JohnnyChance
12-03-2012, 03:42 AM
humor really doesn't exist on the internet.

It does sir, it does. Well played.

And I agree. The Geng cuts so well it's tough to count out in that price range just because you want patina. And you do get some...it's just along the edge and on the spine. And in both the White and Semi stainless.