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View Full Version : What would be my top stainless gyuto?



mark76
12-01-2012, 02:01 PM
I am looking for my top 210mm gyuto. I have three main criteria for it:

- truly stainless steel
- steel that is able to take a great edge
- ergonomic Western handle

Please let me explain my criteria. The knife should be truly stainless. I will care for it well, but I also know that my girlfriend will leave it wet for a long time sometimes. So Iím also not looking for semi-stainless like Carbonext or Konosuke HD.

Ability to take a great edge is very important to me. I love knife sharpening (have a Wicked Edge, with Shaptons, too) and I want to be able get all of my knives wickedly sharp. The best truly stainless steel I know that takes a great edge is AEB-L (13C26). On another forum I was told that Ginsanko (G3) and S35V also take a great edge, but I have no experience with them. But Iím certainly not looking for VG-10.

Iím not into wa handles, so I want a Western one. I have fairly large hands, so the handles should not be too short or thin. And by ergonomic I mean also not too blocky.

Iím flexible with other possible criteria. Obviously a top gyuto should be fairly thin, but it doesnít have to be a laser. A slightly convex blade would be nice, but itís not a necessity. Edge retention is not very important to me, since I love sharpening. Ability to take an edge is much more important. And if it matters: Iím right-handed. Iím a home cook, but an avid one.

The advice I have gotten until now are the Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef and the Artifex (a re-handled one, since the original has a fairly small handle). They both have AEB-L steel. Another knife under consideration is the Hiromoto G3, which has ginsanko steel.

I have also considered knives like the Konosuke HH and the Misono UX-10 which seem to be great knives. But their steel composition is not public and does not seem to be as good for my purposes as AEB-L.

What do you guys think? Should the Takayuki, the Artifex and the Hiromoto be my top 3? Which one would you choose? Or am I overlooking a knife?

Zwiefel
12-01-2012, 02:12 PM
Check out the Gesshin Ginga from JapaneseKnifeImports...Also the Suisin Inox Honyaki.

The Ginga is probably a better value though.

add
12-01-2012, 02:17 PM
*thinking*

*thinking*

Oh, welcome !

RobinW
12-01-2012, 02:18 PM
I'd say that number 5 in this thread is really good value at $265.
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/9284-Winter-Knife-Sale!

Also, i'd go for a 240 instead of a 210.

Welcome by the way!

James
12-01-2012, 02:36 PM
+1 to ginga. Sakai yusuke also has great reviews. You can get it from bluewayjapan on ebay; with a few bucks, hardness can be bumped up to 61.

I believe I remember reading somewhere that the konosuke hh is 13c26 (aeb-l equivalent), but at the current price, I'd go for the yusuke or ginga.

tk59
12-01-2012, 03:35 PM
If could choose one stainless (There is no such thing as "true" stainless. They are all shades of gray.) blade, regardless of price and ultimate edge quality was my priority, AEB-L/13c26 treated with Devin's method would easily be my top choice. After that, I'd choose whatever Tilman had done to SB1. Of the factory made stuff, I wouldn't hesitate on the Gesshin Ginga. If you don't need an ultimate edge or you don't want to sharpen as often, you might go for any number of other stainless options. I would give serious consideration to Gengetsu (quite stainless core and "true" stainless clad) or Suisin Inox Honyaki. I've tried a lot of pm steel options and I do not believe they offer a significant advantage except in some cases and even then, only for professional cooks that need an edge to survive pretty heavy use.

chinacats
12-01-2012, 04:00 PM
Greetings! I know nothing about stainless, but good luck with your search!

Johnny.B.Good
12-01-2012, 04:11 PM
I'd say that number 5 in this thread is really good value at $265.
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/9284-Winter-Knife-Sale!

Wow, agreed.

Welcome to the forum, Evert!

K-Fed
12-01-2012, 04:48 PM
My favorites so far in the stainless category are tilman's sb1 ( used in a pass around ) and the suisin inox honyaki. The suisin isn't western handled but it does have one of the largest and nicest factory wa handles I've had the pleasure to use. My suisin IH's are definitely my go to knives. I feel like they have a really good balance of all the qualities we look for in a kitchen knife ( edge taking, ease of sharpening, edge longevity, toughness etc ) and are worth consideration.

bikehunter
12-01-2012, 05:42 PM
Welcome!

DeepCSweede
12-01-2012, 05:44 PM
I can't believe no-one has recommended a DTK in AEB-L or a custom in AEB-L.

Johnny.B.Good
12-01-2012, 05:51 PM
I can't believe no-one has recommended a DTK in AEB-L or a custom in AEB-L.

Devin Thomas ITK? TK said a knife in AEB-L with Devin's heat treat would be his top choice.

kalaeb
12-01-2012, 06:04 PM
I don't think anyone did the DT ITK because it is generally a wa. That being said, and no budget listed, I would contact Mr. Thomas and ask him to make you a monosteel gyuto in either his pm stainless(best stainless ever) or his AEB-l with a western handle. His westerns have a great shape.

DeepCSweede
12-01-2012, 06:45 PM
Ahhh good point on the Wa.

SpikeC
12-01-2012, 06:46 PM
A budget would help.

apicius9
12-01-2012, 07:13 PM
Looks like the Blazen has completely fallen out of fashion, but I still like mine. Think it's a good allrounder.

Stefan

stevenStefano
12-01-2012, 07:17 PM
Aren't a massive number of good stainless Westerns. If you go custom the options are a lot more appealing. Sakai Yusuke would be a good one, if you email Keiichi I guarantee he could get you sorted and it wouldn't be very expensive. I also like Niolox

Chefdog
12-01-2012, 07:39 PM
I know you said your not looking for Vg-10, but I think you should strongly consider the Hattori FH gyuto. I got a 240 a few months ago after chasing the "best" knife with the "best" steel for almost a year. Finally I gave up on buying based solely on the steel and picked based on the reputation of the maker. I am not dissapointed. The knife is very well made, with an excellent yo-style handle, is not-quite-laser thin (which is exactly what I wanted), and is a great performer. There's truth to the tales of Hattori's ways with vg-10, it feels incredibly smooth on the stones and takes a very nice edge for me very easily (finished on a 4k shapton & stropping on B.C. Loaded balsa). This feels night and day different from a few students' Shuns that I've sharpened, like its not even the same steel. The spine comes without easing, but 3 minutes, some wet/dry and a little elbow grease fixed that. With everyone else's prices rising recently, it's very fairly priced as well.
I hope I don't sound like a Hattori commercial, but I couldn't be happier with this knife. If nothing else jumps out at you, this certainly fits the bill if you can deal with the Vg-10.

EdipisReks
12-01-2012, 07:41 PM
i'd have a hard time not getting a Gesshin Kagero.

cclin
12-01-2012, 08:58 PM
what is your budget? if you want top stainless gyuto- I'll choose Devin's AEB-L ITK (if you can find one with western handle.....). my second choice will be Takamura Suminagashi R-2 steel http://knifewear.com/knife-family.asp?family=41 Takamura-san's knife is not very popular in US market; but, very famous in Japan. his gyuto remain one of my best cutter compare to my DT, Shigefusa, Carter, Masamoto KS etc.....

heldentenor
12-01-2012, 09:20 PM
i'm biased by recent experience, but I really liked the Togiharu G1 I played with as part of Korin's passaround. If you're looking sub-$200, give it a peek; I believe Korin is in the midst of its winter 15% off sale, too. Mari?

keithsaltydog
12-01-2012, 11:22 PM
The western handle Togiharu Inox(Thin Profile)is a good stainless knife.The thinness is behind the edge making it easy to sharpen & a capable cutter.

Customfan
12-01-2012, 11:39 PM
I agree with Devins ITK and custom.. I like suisin Inox Honyaki and Nenohi Nenox. I sometimes use a Glestain 210 that i bought a while ago and a Kikuichi stainless as well.

In a more custom realm... Butch's and Pierre's CPM154 have been good to me.

I think you just have to start trying some different things, then trade until you find something you really like... But iTK is the way to go (if you can find it, that is!).

Good luck on the search!

ThEoRy
12-01-2012, 11:50 PM
What do you want to spend, 80 or 800?

RobinW
12-02-2012, 04:03 AM
Should the Takayuki, the Artifex and the Hiromoto be my top 3?

With these as a reference, at least custom Devin might not be in his budget. But i agree with you, a number is always better!

wenus2
12-02-2012, 08:54 AM
i'd have a hard time not getting a Gesshin Kagero.

:plus1:
These feel great in hand. Very natural, very comfortable handle.
They are Really beautiful knives that just aren't done justice on paper/screen.

mark76
12-02-2012, 04:10 PM
Hi everyone,

Thanks a lot for the amount and extent of your answers! This is my first post here (Iíll introduce myself somewhere else) and I really hadnít expected this!

Some people asked for my budget. Itís not really fixed, but a custom knife is, I am afraid, out of my reach. Iíd love a custom DT, but alasÖ I was thinking $250 max or so. Maybe a bit more for something really special. But less is better in this respect.

If I count the votes :-), itís clear that the Gesshin Ginga and Suisin Inox are the most popular ones here. And also more than one vote for Togiharu, although different knives. Thanks also for the link to the rehandled Ginga in the B/S/T forum. It looks like a great deal, but unfortunately 240 mm is really too large for my purposes.

One of my troubles is that, since I love sharpening, Iíd like to know what the steel composition is of the blades. I do know about the importance of heat treat and blade finish, but that way I get at least an idea. Iíve heard rumors that Suisin uses 19C27 for their Inox line, but I am not sure. Does anyone know what steel Gesshin Ginga is made of?

Surprisingly (to me) no-one mentioned the knives that were recommended to me on another forum: the Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef and a rehandled Artifex in AEB-L and the Hiromoto G3 in Ginsanko. What makes you prefer the Gesshin Ginga or Suisin Inox over these knives?

Thanks again!

JBroida
12-02-2012, 04:15 PM
Hi everyone,

Thanks a lot for the amount and extent of your answers! This is my first post here (Iíll introduce myself somewhere else) and I really hadnít expected this!

Some people asked for my budget. Itís not really fixed, but a custom knife is, I am afraid, out of my reach. Iíd love a custom DT, but alasÖ I was thinking $250 max or so. Maybe a bit more for something really special. But less is better in this respect.

If I count the votes :-), itís clear that the Gesshin Ginga and Suisin Inox are the most popular ones here. And also more than one vote for Togiharu, although different knives. Thanks also for the link to the rehandled Ginga in the B/S/T forum. It looks like a great deal, but unfortunately 240 mm is really too large for my purposes.

One of my troubles is that, since I love sharpening, Iíd like to know what the steel composition is of the blades. I do know about the importance of heat treat and blade finish, but that way I get at least an idea. Iíve heard rumors that Suisin uses 19C27 for their Inox line, but I am not sure. Does anyone know what steel Gesshin Ginga is made of?

Surprisingly (to me) no-one mentioned the knives that were recommended to me on another forum: the Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef and a rehandled Artifex in AEB-L and the Hiromoto G3 in Ginsanko. What makes you prefer the Gesshin Ginga or Suisin Inox over these knives?

Thanks again!

we use a finely grained swedish stainless steel in our gesshin ginga line

RobinW
12-02-2012, 04:48 PM
I have the 210 petty from Gesshin Ginga and (despite being a stainless) it is nice to sharpen and takes a very nice edge.

mhlee
12-02-2012, 04:53 PM
:plus1:
These feel great in hand. Very natural, very comfortable handle.
They are Really beautiful knives that just aren't done justice on paper/screen.

+1 The Kagero is a very nice knife. Although I didn't sharpen it, the one I used had a very nice, toothy edge that did not seem to have any edge degradation over the course of several days (home cook use). It has a good geometry, is surprising light, thin but stiff, and agile.

jigert
12-02-2012, 05:13 PM
Don't go with the artifex... I bought one, without custom handle, a while ago and I wasn't impressed at all. Although it's made of a good steel and the custom handles looks good, it's too thick behind the edge.

jigert
12-02-2012, 05:14 PM
Oh, and welcome!

Aphex
12-02-2012, 05:16 PM
It's a Gesshin Kangero all the way for me

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives/gesshin-kagero/gesshin-kagero-210mm-powdered-steel-gyuto.html#

mark76
12-03-2012, 11:19 AM
we use a finely grained swedish stainless steel in our gesshin ginga line

But you're not gonna tell which one? :-)

Zwiefel
12-03-2012, 05:40 PM
But you're not gonna tell which one? :-)

I doubt it :)

(and that's OK.)

ThEoRy
12-03-2012, 09:22 PM
But you're not gonna tell which one? :-)

It's the one with awesome in it... :)

kalaeb
12-03-2012, 09:26 PM
Rest assured, Jon does not sell crap and never deceives. If he says its a fine grained stainless, it most certainly is.

JBroida
12-03-2012, 09:38 PM
It's the one with awesome in it... :)

how did you know?

So, i used to share a lot more information about things, but it caused some problems (either customers being distracted by things that werent relevant or competitors copying what i was doing). So, sadly, now days i share less. However, that doesnt mean i'm not willing to describe things in depth. For example, its much less important that you know what a steel is, but i can tell you about the grain structure, experience in sharpening, what kind of an edge it takes, how it holds an edge, how brittle or tough it is, etc. In fact, in the store here, i can often show people.

chinacats
12-03-2012, 10:20 PM
In fact, in the store here, i can often show people.

Yep, time to open a shop on the East Coast, imagine how many more people you could show!

tk59
12-04-2012, 12:37 AM
...I was thinking $250 max or so. Maybe a bit more for something really special. But less is better in this respect.

If I count the votes :-), itís clear that the Gesshin Ginga and Suisin Inox are the most popular ones here. And also more than one vote for Togiharu, although different knives. Thanks also for the link to the rehandled Ginga in the B/S/T forum. It looks like a great deal, but unfortunately 240 mm is really too large for my purposes.

Surprisingly (to me) no-one mentioned the knives that were recommended to me on another forum: the Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef and a rehandled Artifex in AEB-L and the Hiromoto G3 in Ginsanko. What makes you prefer the Gesshin Ginga or Suisin Inox over these knives?
Those three knives are cheaper. The Grand Chef and Hiro both take nice edges. Neither comes close to matching the pure cutting pleasure derived from such superb blades as the Ginga or the Suisin. Every time I see someone mention a knife made by Lamson it seems they tend to use the words "help" and "thick." Suisin Inox honyaki line is 19c27. I go out of my way to get the best stuff. None of those three made the cut. The Ginga is pretty much unmatched at that price point for the combination of cutting power, stain resistance and edge-taking and the edge retention is pretty nice, too.

markenki
12-04-2012, 01:05 AM
Looks like the Blazen has completely fallen out of fashion, but I still like mine. Think it's a good allrounder.

Stefan
I've been very happy with the 180 gyuto I bought from EE on sale a few years ago. It is my go-to knife when I need to do something quick, and don't want to fuss too much about the knife. It can get incredibly sharp. Impeccable fit and finish. Love it.

phasedweasel
12-07-2012, 12:14 AM
I've been very happy with the 180 gyuto I bought from EE on sale a few years ago. It is my go-to knife when I need to do something quick, and don't want to fuss too much about the knife. It can get incredibly sharp. Impeccable fit and finish. Love it.

Wow, when I first started this whole adventure all everyone was talking about were Blazens and the Hattori FH.

Let me give another vote for the Susin Inox, but I'm sorry I can't contribute anything insightful about a western handled knife.

tk59
12-07-2012, 12:32 AM
I don't get the Hattori FH love but Blazens are excellent knives. However, the edge they take doesn't approach that of carbon steel like the Ginga does. The Suisin doesn't either, for that matter.

markenki
12-07-2012, 01:05 AM
I'll need to check out the Ginga line. Afterall I don't have a 210 stainless. :) My cousin-in-law is moving into their new home in Southern California tomorrow, and we promised to visit them sometime next year. Of course, I will have to visit JKI (assuming Jon and Sara will have me!). It would be cool to pick up the knife at the store in person.

JBroida
12-07-2012, 01:36 AM
i love it when people from the forums come in... i dont have to tone down my dorkiness

chinacats
12-07-2012, 02:51 AM
i love it when people from the forums come in... i dont have to tone down my dorkiness

:lol2:

Crothcipt
12-08-2012, 01:39 AM
:goodpost::plus1:

jcsiii
12-08-2012, 05:10 AM
The 19c27 steel in the suisin is amazing stuff. It's edge retention IMO is comparable to high HRC tool steel knives but it can be taken to a sharper edge than those tool steel knives. I've been able to use my suisin in a pro enviroment for a couple of weeks of heavy board work with it still shaving sharp after a couple of strokes on a borocilicate rod. No other steel I've used has been as responsive to the borocilicate rod which I also find interesting.

Another steel that I've recently have been trying and enjoying is the Cronidur steel that Henckels uses. Got my hands on a cheep santoku from the line and it's kept an agressive edge no matter what it's cut (acidic foods included)

I wonder if any of the custom makers have used this steel yet?

mark76
12-08-2012, 06:00 AM
Jon,

The 210 mm Ginga gyuto seems out of stock. Do you know when you sell it again?

Cadillac J
12-08-2012, 12:55 PM
the edge they take doesn't approach that of carbon steel like the Ginga does. The Suisin doesn't either, for that matter.

I'd have to disagree with your comment about the Suisin's 19c27 from my experience, as I still cannot believe how sharp of an edge my 210 petty takes, and the retention is decent enough. Out of any knife I've used or owned, none have easily cut me from barely touching them...then again, I've thinned out and already uber thin knife to begin with.



The 19c27 steel in the suisin is amazing stuff. It's edge retention IMO is comparable to high HRC tool steel knives but it can be taken to a sharper edge than those tool steel knives.

This is more of how I feel about it.


Just once again proves how everyone's experience is different.

K-Fed
12-09-2012, 01:18 PM
I'd have to disagree with your comment about the Suisin's 19c27 from my experience, as I still cannot believe how sharp of an edge my 210 petty takes, and the retention is decent enough. Out of any knife I've used or owned, none have easily cut me from barely touching them...then again, I've thinned out and already uber thin knife to begin with.




This is more of how I feel about it.


Just once again proves how everyone's experience is different.

+1 to this I'm still amazed by my suisins. Fantastic knives and even with the recent price hike I would replace them in a heartbeat if something were to happen to them.

Jon, question, what grit level do you generally take you're suisin IH's to? I've been playing around with some different levels of polish lately and have found that they hold a rather polished edge, taken to 10k jks/ kitiyama, or natural finisher quite well. Much more so than I had expected. I hadn't taken them past 6k untill recently. Have you had a similar experience?

tk59
12-09-2012, 01:24 PM
Let me just say that shaving with the Ginga is a much nicer shave than with a Suisin. There's really no comparison. :knife:

I will say that Suisins are great for edge retention if you are relatively gentle with them or apply a microbevel.

Pachowder
12-09-2012, 02:29 PM
Has anyone said a harner, or ealy, or hhh, etc? If not, then I say a harner or ealy or hhh :)

K-Fed
12-09-2012, 02:51 PM
Let me just say that shaving with the Ginga is a much nicer shave than with a Suisin. There's really no comparison. :knife:

I will say that Suisins are great for edge retention if you are relatively gentle with them or apply a microbevel.

Lol I'd believe that.

jgraeff
12-09-2012, 03:20 PM
I just got a custom from Mario, its a 270mm Gyuto but has the profile of a suji, ive only used it for a few days but i love that knife, i recently got a second job at a hotel and my first position is the room service/pantry stuff and man do i do a lot of knife work! I cut about 60lbs fruit a day, on top of bread, portioning grouper and other fish, dicing herbs, cutting cases of tomatoes, chopping potatoes for fries etc just a heck of a lot of cutting, i have worked 4 doubles( that job and my sous chef job) thats the only knife i grab for right now other than my bread knife here and there. (don't have my Marko so will be interesting to see which i reach for more)

the knife still passes the tomato test, i feel there is no need to touch it up at all, the knife is awesome with great edge retention, sharp edge, and its stainless which is a huge bonus.

That may be something to look into... although about the above discussion i have tried suisin and gesshin ginga and i prefer the ginga overall, in my opinion it outperforms and costs a lot less.

JBroida
12-09-2012, 03:47 PM
+1 to this I'm still amazed by my suisins. Fantastic knives and even with the recent price hike I would replace them in a heartbeat if something were to happen to them.

Jon, question, what grit level do you generally take you're suisin IH's to? I've been playing around with some different levels of polish lately and have found that they hold a rather polished edge, taken to 10k jks/ kitiyama, or natural finisher quite well. Much more so than I had expected. I hadn't taken them past 6k untill recently. Have you had a similar experience?

i've taken them up to 20k on synthetics and used high grit naturals many times, but i tend to stick somewhere between 6k and 8k usually.

mdoublestack
12-12-2012, 08:40 AM
Is it weird, after trying many other (Konosuke, Gesshin Ginga, Akifusa and Misono...)stainless gyutos and petties - my preference lies still lies with my first japanese knife, My Mighty Mac professional series? They simply, feel good.

tk59
12-14-2012, 02:16 AM
Yeah. I still love my Glestain.