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David Metzger
12-03-2012, 09:43 PM
I know a 240mm Gyuto is more efficient and in some ways easier than a 210mm, but would you still suggest a 240mm for a home cook that usually cooks for just two people. Maybe a 225mm has some merit. What do you think? - this is for cooks but without crazy knife skills. Thanks for your thoughts

David

stevenStefano
12-03-2012, 09:56 PM
Well a 240 wa-gyuto will be about 220 on the edge surely so just get a wa-240?

Lucretia
12-03-2012, 10:10 PM
I cook for two. My most-used gyutos/chefs are 180mm. I have a 210mm and don't use it as often because with limited counterspace the extra length gets in the way, and the 180s are comfortable and efficient. I also use shorter pettys/utility knives fairly often.

I also don't wear a big watch. :D

K-Fed
12-03-2012, 10:11 PM
240's are nice but I've found that I much prefer a 270 and a 210 in concert ( pro kitchen ). The 210mm is plenty long ( western handled ) for almost everything I do at the prep table and on the line though i do sacrifice a bit of edge longevity simply because I have less edge to work with.

kalaeb
12-03-2012, 10:14 PM
I really like the 225 size and if you can find one would take it over a 240.

The hekler
12-03-2012, 10:16 PM
I feel knife size has more to do with available space then it does the amount of food your prepping. If you have the space get a 240mm. I cook for one a regularly use a 240mm or 270mm gyuto. That said different knife makers measure knives differently especially with custom makers, I have a 240mm gyuto from Del Ealy that's only about 6mm shorter from the handle then my 270mm RRlover gyuto, about 12mm shorter on the blade, so know what your getting.

chinacats
12-03-2012, 10:38 PM
I am a home cook and currently using a 225 (MT) which I find a nice size for most situations. That said, I am currently looking for a complementary 260-280.

Lefty
12-03-2012, 10:42 PM
I really like the 225 size and if you can find one would take it over a 240.

Exactly this. 225 has felt the most natural for me. In fact, I've been using one approximately this length by Luke Snyder for about 3 weeks, and it just feels right. The same went for the Davis passaround gyuto.

turbochef422
12-03-2012, 10:57 PM
I always use 240+ just because of the room I have on my kitchen (work) but the mizuno I recently got is a 240 but its a bit of a short 240 and I kinda like the size. I think 225 or a short 240 would feel good at home.

markenki
12-03-2012, 11:17 PM
Well a 240 wa-gyuto will be about 220 on the edge surely so just get a wa-240?
Some 240s run long. My 240 Shigefusa wa-gyuto is a little over 245mm, heel to tip.

cclin
12-03-2012, 11:25 PM
Well a 240 wa-gyuto will be about 220 on the edge surely so just get a wa-240?

that depends.... some wa-gyuto measure from heel to tip, some from handle to tip!

I'm using 165mm or 180mm santoku cook simple meal for two...

EdipisReks
12-04-2012, 12:01 AM
it seems to be mostly knives from Sakai that don't measure edge length, on the wa-knives.

quantumcloud509
12-04-2012, 02:55 AM
I LOVE my 270 Takeda Guyoto because it does 3x the work in the same amount of time a 210 would.

ChiliPepper
12-04-2012, 04:26 AM
Probably going against the tide here but I'm also home cook preparing food for two every day on a home-sized benchtop and find my 210 gyuto absolutely sufficient for everything. Just switch to a suji for slicing tasks: more efficient and a good excuse to buy another knife :bliss:

Lefty
12-04-2012, 07:22 AM
Turns out ChiliPepper's a genius! :D. I used to be more in the 210 camp, but since I've gotten used to 240s, I'd have trouble deciding, when cooking at home. Since I'm in a position that allows me to use what I feel like using that day, I do just that. However, my next custom would still be the 225, if I "had to choose". To be honest, a 180 petty can do almost everything I need it to, at home, and I often go for one of my three that size, because I enjoy using them.

I guess it's all just a matter of preference. For what it's worth, around here, 240 is accepted as the "standard sized gyuto".

Benuser
12-04-2012, 07:28 AM
The extra length allows me to make a real flat section with a strong symmetric edge for rougher tasks, without interfering with the normal use.

NO ChoP!
12-04-2012, 07:59 AM
A longer knife requires one to lift the knife less when rocking. It also adds weight, which offsets the pressure one must exert. There is also usually added thinness at the tip. That being said, I use a 210 gyuto and a santuko at home, and 240's at work. My experiences with 270's and 300's is they tend to feel unwieldy....

franzb69
12-04-2012, 09:15 AM
+1 on no chop.

=D

WildBoar
12-04-2012, 10:24 AM
I use primarily 240s (home cook). My wife has graduated from 150s to a 210, but has recently started to play with a 240 every now and then. The main reason the 210 is her 'go to' is the size of her cutting board; she feels the 240 is a bit big when she is manuvering around small piles of cut-up stuff. The cutting board I use is bigger (18x24), and I have no problem with 240s or the 270.

I'd say if you have a 12x18 cutting board you probably don't want to go any bigger then a 210. If you have a 16x22 you can use a 240, but it probably depends on your 'board management'. With an 18x24 you can use just about anything.

The whole goal (for us, at least) is to minimize the prep time. That makes it easier to cook on a regular basis. For me that translates to a longer knife on a bigger board, and for her it's a shorter knife on a smaller board -- although she did indicate the other night that her board is beginning to feel a little small...

Vertigo
12-04-2012, 10:57 AM
I know a 240mm Gyuto is more efficient and in some ways easier than a 210mm, but would you still suggest a 240mm for a home cook that usually cooks for just two people.
The listed edge length is a rough guideline at best and an outright fallacy at worst. The only reason we talk about edge lengths like 210-240-270 so often is that, by and large, we all shop online and edge length is the most easily measured and quantified property; unfortunately, this lends much more importance to the property than it deserves. I have a "210" on my knife rack with an edge length of 223, recently played with a "240" that had an edge length of 225, and am confident I'm far from alone in this experience.

Besides, profile and geometry make the knife, not edge length. 30mm (give or take 15mm randomly in either direction) is meaningless in the context of a board knife: the profile will dictate how much you can use at once and the geometry will dictate how heavy it feels.

Don't let the nerds fool you. Lefty can talk all day about how rad a 225 is over a 210, but bear in mind that 15mm is about the length of your thumbnail. It's completely negligible.

http://www.souppilgrim.com/img/smilies/peanutpoop.gif

dough
12-04-2012, 11:29 AM
I think you should stay below 180-210.
most knife user prefer knives in that range. also think of the size of the things you are cutting. If your cutting three heads of romaine at a time well a 210 might not be the best choice but if you are more likely cutting smaller things no need to be swinging around extra blade/weight.
smaller knives are also easier to maintain and learn on because they take less time to sharpen all things being equal. the less time time spent sharpening the less time to be fatigued and make mistakes.
goodluck whatever you choose to do.

Cutty Sharp
12-04-2012, 01:01 PM
I'd say if you have a 12x18 cutting board you probably don't want to go any bigger then a 210. If you have a 16x22 you can use a 240, but it probably depends on your 'board management'. With an 18x24 you can use just about anything.

Jeez, makes me feel odd as my main board is just 20cmx40cm... Had to convert the 12"x18" you mentioned, and that's 30cmx46cm - so significantly bigger than mine. Still, my main gyuto is a 240 and it's snug for me on that board, but it's all I have space for on my minute countertop and I cope. Half the time I'm using the tip area and doing details, and if I'm using the middle and back to chop or rock or push then I go at an angle along the board. Actually, I'm fine and I'd rather go to a nakiri or petty or another type of smaller knife than switch to a smaller gyuto which would just seem too 'mini' to me.

EdipisReks
12-04-2012, 01:23 PM
two weeks ago i was using a 300mm suji at a friend's house on a plastic board that might have been 4x7. board size doesn't matter, it's all the user. i like longer knives because i get more efficient slices.

Lefty
12-04-2012, 01:29 PM
Vertigo is somewhat right. But I'm not a nerd...far from it, actually ;)

It does depend on the knife, balance point, etc. However, since we're generalizing, an giving general guidelines, and answering directly to what the OP asked, I still say 225 is the way to go. The best part of all of this, is we're all answering this question based on our PERSONAL PREFERENCE, and experiences. Really, what I write doesn't mean much, but it gives the OP some food for thought...preferably cut with a 225.

**mic drop**

WildBoar
12-04-2012, 01:30 PM
^^ (Cutty Sharp) your 8x16 board is probably small enough that you can cut something, pick up the board and push the cuttings into a bowl, then put the board back down and cut something else. I guess once you get a board a little bigger it's more of a PITA to pick it up like that. For me, I can prep faster when I have storage room on the board surface, and transfer all the cuttings after I am done with the knife (or after I've amassed enough of a pile that I run out of working area on the board).

My mom has existed with a board about the size as yours for quite a few years. Whenever we go over there and help w/ dinner prep, it is a royal pain to work on that tiny board. Once you get used to having a bit of real estate it is hard to go without. It takes me more time to do the prep on that small board, and in the end I want to get it done as quickly as I can. Since we have the counter space at our house (and I realize not everyone does), bigger is better. In fact I will be under pressure soon to hand my board over to my wife and get a bigger one for my work area.

EdipisReks
12-04-2012, 02:02 PM
my comment was only about knife size vs board size. a bigger board is, in most ways, much nicer than a smaller board, but a small board doesn't mean you can't effectively use a big knife. i have a 15x20 and a 14x18 board, one on my island and one on my main counter, and i wish both were bigger.

Cutty Sharp
12-04-2012, 02:04 PM
^^ (Cutty Sharp) your 8x16 board is probably small enough that you can cut something, pick up the board and push the cuttings into a bowl, then put the board back down and cut something else. I guess once you get a board a little bigger it's more of a PITA to pick it up like that. For me, I can prep faster when I have storage room on the board surface, and transfer all the cuttings after I am done with the knife (or after I've amassed enough of a pile that I run out of working area on the board).

My mom has existed with a board about the size as yours for quite a few years. Whenever we go over there and help w/ dinner prep, it is a royal pain to work on that tiny board. Once you get used to having a bit of real estate it is hard to go without. It takes me more time to do the prep on that small board, and in the end I want to get it done as quickly as I can. Since we have the counter space at our house (and I realize not everyone does), bigger is better. In fact I will be under pressure soon to hand my board over to my wife and get a bigger one for my work area.

Man, having that real estate is but a dream for me, as it'd take up all my counter top with a nice board. I have a one that size, but it's employed as a top on rack. Actually my board tends to have enough length that that I can push 1 maybe 2 things to the side, while handling another one. Still recovering from some distant memories of working on the line, having few time pressures cooking at home feels like such a luxury and my wife doesn't get impatient either, so this also helps to cope with the lack of space. Traditionally, if things aren't ideal, I also tell myself that this is a good way to improve technique or imagination, which is true.


my comment was only about knife size vs board size. a bigger board is, in most ways, much nicer than a smaller board, but a small board doesn't mean you can't effectively use a big knife. i have a 15x20 and a 14x18 board, one on my island and one on my main counter, and i wish both were bigger.

Ooo ... luxury!

WildBoar
12-04-2012, 02:18 PM
I def give you pro guys credit for getting a lot done in very small spaces.

DeepCSweede
12-04-2012, 02:19 PM
Vertigo is somewhat right. But I'm not a nerd...far from it, actually ;)

It does depend on the knife, balance point, etc. However, since we're generalizing, an giving general guidelines, and answering directly to what the OP asked, I still say 225 is the way to go. The best part of all of this, is we're all answering this question based on our PERSONAL PREFERENCE, and experiences. Really, what I write doesn't mean much, but it gives the OP some food for thought...preferably cut with a 225.

**mic drop**
**Pick up Mic**
Yeah - well Salty's board and his knives are bigger....

**drop Mic**

Canadian
12-04-2012, 03:56 PM
I'm a home cook, have big hands and I wouldn't go any larger than 254mm (10")--my current go-to knife is 250mm.

With that said, I also wouldn't go with anything shorter than 210mm for my main task knife.

So 210-254mm is where I stand with a slight bias towards the longer knife. In practice, the difference isn't so great.

Vertigo
12-04-2012, 04:07 PM
...and answering directly to what the OP asked, I still say 225 is the way to go...
Well see that's the problem, the OP asked a meaningless question. He said: "should I use an eight inch or a nine inch knife," and got three pages of nerdy nonsense extrapolating the poignant differences between 8, 8.5, and 9 inch knives as if they were somehow founded in reality. The extra inch of length does not increase your edge's longevity, unless you are a idiot savant who manages to wear the entire edge at the exact same rate; it does not take any extra room to wield, because it's an inch, and if an inch of steel makes or breaks your ability to use a knife, you shouldn't use be using a knife (seriously guys, just choke up on it a bit); and lastly, it only might increase the weight--perhaps between two otherwise exact models--but I butter toast with a 300mm gyuto that weighs less than my 8" Wusthof, so there's clearly some grand generalizations being made here.

The only people who ask if they should use an eight inch or a nine inch knife are people who don't understand what they're looking for in the first place, and it's therefore the last thing those people should be worried about.

Von blewitt
12-04-2012, 05:09 PM
^well said^

rdm_magic
12-04-2012, 07:05 PM
Wow, sure told them ;)

Lefty
12-04-2012, 07:26 PM
You might be right, but it's a natural question to ask. It's another factor, and as you said, perhaps the easiest to centre out. A normal starting point when buying your first expensive (Japanese, perhaps) knife is, "What type of knife"? And the next question is surely going to be, "what size?". It's just how our brains work.

Cutty Sharp
12-04-2012, 08:20 PM
Well see that's the problem, the OP asked a meaningless question. He said: "should I use an eight inch or a nine inch knife," and got three pages of nerdy nonsense extrapolating the poignant differences between 8, 8.5, and 9 inch knives as if they were somehow founded in reality. ... The only people who ask if they should use an eight inch or a nine inch knife are people who don't understand what they're looking for in the first place, and it's therefore the last thing those people should be worried about.

Kind of true, but poor David Metzger who just asked a simple question and said, 'Thanks for your thoughts.' If people want to obsess about small details then let 'em, I say. And at any rate, if someone doesn't wonder about such things then they probably don't care much about the world of blades anyway, and it's natural to ask, as Lefty said. Also, I wouldn't want people to feel shy or foolish about asking 'dumb' questions. Of course all the questions that I have asked in the past have been highly intelligent and informed, I'm sure. :dontknow:

Vertigo
12-04-2012, 08:24 PM
You might be right, but it's a natural question to ask. It's another factor, and as you said, perhaps the easiest to centre out. A normal starting point when buying your first expensive (Japanese, perhaps) knife is, "What type of knife"? And the next question is surely going to be, "what size?". It's just how our brains work.

That's fair, it just seems irresponsible to respond to that question with dozens of generalizations, anecdotes, and outright falsehoods that only serve to obfuscate the buyer's real need. It's been brought to my attention, however, that I'm being an impetuous ass, so I'll leave it at that and excuse myself from the piss I just sprayed everywhere. Huzzah!

http://www.souppilgrim.com/orglif/doh.jpg

Lefty
12-04-2012, 08:34 PM
Haha. Jack, you're a good guy, and I know what you're saying. In a way, it's the same thing I've always said about a good gyuto type petty or a 210 gyuto.

Anywho....

David Metzger
12-05-2012, 12:17 AM
Well thanks everyone for your thoughts. It was an interesting point about the cutting boards size. Probably a short 240mm or long 210mm is right for me. I knew 240mm sets the gold standard here and I was really surprised to hear so many of you pretty happy with your 210mm. Now is a western handle or wa handle better. JUST KIDDING! Thanks again David

ChiliPepper
12-05-2012, 06:48 PM
Man do I love this forum! and after this thread I would start a petition to be sent to all knifemakers to drop production of nonsensical 210 and 240 mm blades and create a new class @225mm! :knight:

DeepCSweede
12-05-2012, 07:17 PM
Well thanks everyone for your thoughts. It was an interesting point about the cutting boards size. Probably a short 240mm or long 210mm is right for me. I knew 240mm sets the gold standard here and I was really surprised to hear so many of you pretty happy with your 210mm. Now is a western handle or wa handle better. JUST KIDDING! Thanks again David

David - I don't know where you live but there are a lot of great folks on the forum who may invite you over or let you borrow a knife or two to see what you like if you are in their area. Otherwise you can also see if there is a shop nearby that you can try a few out to see what you like.

EdipisReks
12-05-2012, 07:53 PM
It's been brought to my attention, however, that I'm being an impetuous ass, so I'll leave it at that and excuse myself from the piss I just sprayed everywhere.

whoever told you that is the impetuous ass.