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View Full Version : Delamination on deba - issue or not?



echerub
12-17-2012, 02:12 PM
I just got in a new deba that has something I've never seen before: a bit of delamination between the hagane and jigane. It's on the backside and it extends just around to the spine as well. You can sort of see it in the attached photo.

Is this enough of an issue to warrant sending it back? Or is it just a cosmetic thing and it just depends on whether it bugs me enough?

12224

JBroida
12-17-2012, 02:25 PM
fwiw, if i see something like this, i dont send out the knife. However, it may or may not be a issue. It depends on how deep it goes and how it extends through the blade. It is a place where rust can form though, so you should be careful.

echerub
12-17-2012, 02:45 PM
Hmm. Out of curiosity, is this something that would have been evident before final finishing? Or is this something that happens sometime after the knife leaves the maker?

echerub
12-17-2012, 03:29 PM
Contacted the retailer to see what his policy is on this. Now when I check again, the delamination was technically visible on the website's photos but far from obvious. It's disappointing to see this right when you open the package and inspect the item.

Jon, how would you figure out how deep the delamination goes from visual inspection?

bieniek
12-17-2012, 03:35 PM
Just out of curiosity, is that Shigefusa?

The finish and the lines really remind that...

echerub
12-17-2012, 03:38 PM
Yes, it is. Which makes this even more disappointing.

Miles
12-17-2012, 03:41 PM
Jon's comments are valid. It may or may not be an issue. Were it mine and I decided to keep it, I'd be tempted to seal the crack with something just to keep the moisture at bay.

wsfarrell
12-17-2012, 03:47 PM
I returned a Shig usuba that had an issue like that, though less pronounced. The dealer (nshinkai at rakuten) took it back no problem, saying this was an older knife that had been sitting around a while. It hurt me to send it back, but you can't unsee something like that on a Shigefusa.

bieniek
12-17-2012, 03:47 PM
Yes, very dissappointing.

Disturbing also.

echerub
12-17-2012, 03:51 PM
Were it mine and I decided to keep it, I'd be tempted to seal the crack with something just to keep the moisture at bay.

I still haven't decided what to do with this thing. If I can return it with just having to pay for return shipping then I'm probably going to return it. If I decide to keep it though, yes, I'd want to seal up the gap somehow. Epoxy of some kind?

JBroida
12-17-2012, 04:29 PM
you really cant tell how deep or what shape the delamination will be... thats why they can be tricky. Usually this is more of an issue on the bevel than the ura, but still... Depending on the specific occurrence, this can be something visible at the time of making, or can become visible later on. In the case of the ura, it should have been visible when the knife was made. On the bevel, they can show up down the road sometimes, even though nothing was visible in the beginning. I would talk to the seller. You can also seal it, but you would want to make sure no moisture is in there already and that the seal is good. However, that can also chance the texture in that area, which can be troublesome.

echerub
12-17-2012, 04:34 PM
Jon, you are knowledgeable and informative as always ;)

I just heard back from the seller and I'm just gonna be out the return shipping. I'm going to return this little guy. Thankfully there was a second item in the order as well that is a-ok so shipping coming to me wasn't at all a loss! :D

This must be a sign that I really am a-ok with my current debas and don't need this Shige...

rdm_magic
12-17-2012, 04:37 PM
Why are you having to pay postage if there is a fault with the item?

echerub
12-17-2012, 04:46 PM
Good question! Duh. I've definitely been sitting in front of this computer too long today. Time to call it a day and send another email when I get home.

Thanks for poking me a awake with that question :)

ThEoRy
12-17-2012, 07:25 PM
My boss has a Hayate light yanagiba with this very issue. While it doesn't affect cutting performance I believe it is the very reason it was offered as a second and not a numbered Hayate.

maxim
12-17-2012, 08:51 PM
It also look second to me, will return it for sure !

Eric
12-18-2012, 01:02 AM
Definitely return it for either replacement or refund.

eaglerock
12-18-2012, 01:46 AM
I would return it too. when you spend that much you must be happy with what you get :)

bieniek
12-18-2012, 11:21 PM
The dealer (nshinkai at rakuten) took it back no problem, saying this was an older knife that had been sitting around a while.

What a convenient explanation:

"The knife is not in perfect condition because its old"

But you bought it as new, from world-class maker and for world-class money :)

echerub
12-18-2012, 11:31 PM
That's a better explanation than the one I got in my case. Different seller.

schanop
12-19-2012, 02:10 AM
Return this and get 180mm one from Max :-P

Miles
12-19-2012, 03:13 AM
I still haven't decided what to do with this thing. If I can return it with just having to pay for return shipping then I'm probably going to return it. If I decide to keep it though, yes, I'd want to seal up the gap somehow. Epoxy of some kind?

If you were to keep it, I'd do a drop fill of some epoxy, let it cure, then shave the excess, sand it smooth and call it good. It's just a little insurance against moisture creeping in and causing some real damage. As it stands, it doesn't sound like that will be needed.

Top dollar for a sub par knife isn't really my idea of a good deal. If it were a defect that was disclosed before you purchased and the knife were appropriately discounted, I'd be sorely tempted to throw the dice on it, but I'd be fully informed about it and could make that call. Since it wasn't on either account, I'd send it back and cut your losses.

It's disappointing. A defect like that is something which I would expect to be fully disclosed, not discovered upon delivery.

maxim
12-19-2012, 03:23 AM
Just hear from Shigefusa, because of forging with low temp. this Delimitation happens quite often on Shigefusa single beveled knives, my japanese friend that pick them out for me say he will never accept one like that, so it is not something new or old.
But it is definitely a failure in my book and should not be accepted as normal !

Of coarse i think its fine to sell them if it say that in description of the knife and sold as second, in many cases it dose not affect anything in performance of the knife.
If its very thin line and go only in one direction (parelel) i will not hesitate to sell it as second :)

schanop
12-20-2012, 06:15 PM
Return this and get 180mm one from Max :-P

Len, I just saw that So (japan-tool) just listed Shig 195mm kasumi deba, without saya though, at a very good price. 165mm (150mm edge) one like this is a bit small for generic home use.

echerub
12-20-2012, 10:11 PM
Thanks for the heads-up :) I hadn't checked put Japan-tool in a long time.

I already have a really nice 195 deba courtesy of Jon, so I was actually keen on getting a nice 165 or 150. I'm perfectly happy using my budget Tanaka KU 165 touched up a bit myself over time, so maybe this is for the better :)

schanop
12-21-2012, 05:01 AM
I hear your reason :-0, love my Shig 180mm (170mm edge) for all around deba work.


Somebody just snagged Shig 195mm kasumi deba off japan-tool. Good job!!

Von blewitt
12-21-2012, 06:39 AM
I hear your reason :-0, love my Shig 180mm (170mm edge) for all around deba work.


Somebody just snagged Shig 195mm kasumi deba off japan-tool. Good job!!
:dance:

schanop
12-21-2012, 08:46 AM
Next time I head down far south coast, will have to stop at your place, Huw.

Von blewitt
12-22-2012, 01:08 AM
Next time I head down far south coast, will have to stop at your place, Huw.

That would be great!

ecchef
12-22-2012, 06:50 AM
Just hear from Shigefusa, because of forging with low temp. this Delimitation happens quite often on Shigefusa single beveled knives...

Help me to understand ths....does this mean that Shigs are not really forge welded, but are just brought into intimate mechanical contact at the point where the two metals meet? Is this unique to Shigefusa?

maxim
12-22-2012, 07:01 AM
Sorry not quite undestand your question ?
Yes they are forge welded

schanop
12-29-2012, 05:57 AM
Good to see a good write up on your blog, Len.

And the said deba is back for sale :-)