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View Full Version : Opinions on Yoshikane and Masamoto???



Chefdog
12-18-2012, 11:15 AM
Ill try to keep this relatively short and sweet.
I'm goin to buy myself a 240 suji for Christmas and have settled on either the Yoshikane hammer finished, or Masamoto KS. I don't really "need" it, I just want to get myself something that I'll enjoy using.
I realize that they are very different animals, but my requirements aren't strict enough that either won't do the job well. Basically I'm just looking for a good quality wa-suji around the $300 mark that has some character (and is not too light or flexible) and will serve me well for years to come.
I'm interested in whether the KS suji garners as much praise as their gyuto. And I realize that the Yoshikane's are old news and substantially pricier than they used to be, but they just keep calling to me..
So if anyone has experience with either, please chime in and let me know what you like/dislike about either, or any intangible qualities they might offer. Thanks. I look forward to seeing how you guys spend my money!

Lefty
12-18-2012, 11:27 AM
I'm pretty much in love with my KS gyuto. Not sure what that does for you, but ya know...

Chefdog
12-18-2012, 11:39 AM
I'm pretty much in love with my KS gyuto. Not sure what that does for you, but ya know...

It certainly says something about the line as a whole. And that's part of the problem I'm having making a decision. Without regard to price/popularity/personal preference, both the SKD Yoshis and the KS knives are, for the most part, regarded as above average performers.

mainaman
12-18-2012, 11:48 AM
It certainly says something about the line as a whole. And that's part of the problem I'm having making a decision. Without regard to price/popularity/personal preference, both the SKD Yoshis and the KS knives are, for the most part, regarded as above average performers.
If money not and object, get both test and keep the one you like better.

kalaeb
12-18-2012, 11:51 AM
I have used both and prefer the Masamoto for cutting ease, but the yoshi for aesthetics.

pitonboy
12-18-2012, 12:02 PM
I have used both and prefer the Masamoto for cutting ease, but the yoshi for aesthetics.

+1

tk59
12-18-2012, 12:03 PM
I haven't tried the sujis but I will say that there is quite a bit of variability in the KS gyutos some are lasers and other are just okay. They are also very vanilla. Steel is nice but nothing amazing in any way and the handle is just okay even for a ho wood handle (if that is what they use). The handles are also very slim relative to the Yoshikane handles. I have a Yoshikane 270 gyuto that I like quite a bit. It's not my best cutter but it's nice enough to make it into my collection. I would go with the Yoshikane, if it had to be one of those two. Like you said, it has some character, as well.

eaglerock
12-18-2012, 01:40 PM
I have the Yoshikane v2 from maxim. Awesome knife :)

Chefdog
12-18-2012, 02:08 PM
Thanks for the replies so far, I appreciate it.

If anyone has a suggestion for something else to consider, feel free to throw it out there. I realize there are cheaper options that are probably "better" performing knives (Gesshin Ginga, Yusuke, etc). But I happen to be in a position where ultimate performance and efficiency aren't necessarily the top priority. Thanks.

cclin
12-18-2012, 02:21 PM
I haven't tried the suji but I have Masamoto ks & Yoshikane SLD 240 gyuto. both knives have great cutting performance; however, Yoshikane SLD has better edge retention than KS! I specially love Yoshikane's SLD/SKD semi-stainless steel(SLD & SKD are very similar steel, SLD contains higher carbon then SKD, It take keener edge than SKD steel), they cut/feel/sharping like carbon steel but the blade act like stainless..no need for special care & no food reactive!! on the other hand, Masamoto ks has some food reactive....I like my Yoshikane SLD over Masamoto ks; Yoshikane SLD is not my best cutter but it is my best all-around gyuto!!

JBroida
12-18-2012, 02:39 PM
I haven't tried the suji but I have Masamoto ks & Yoshikane SLD 240 gyuto. both knives have great cutting performance; however, Yoshikane SLD has better edge retention than KS! I specially love Yoshikane's SLD/SKD semi-stainless steel(SLD & SKD are very similar steel, SLD contains higher carbon then SKD, It take keener edge than SKD steel), they cut/feel/sharping like carbon steel but the blade act like stainless..no need for special care & no food reactive!! on the other hand, Masamoto ks has some food reactive....I like my Yoshikane SLD over Masamoto ks; Yoshikane SLD is not my best cutter but it is my best all-around gyuto!!

not true with regard to carbon content... SKD has higher carbon and is pretty much stainless by all accounts, while SLD will patina easily

maxim
12-18-2012, 03:01 PM
Carbon content of SKD is C: 1.00 SLD is C. 1.40-1.62


Yoshikane uses SKD =SKD 12 or ANSI A2
And SLD = JIS SKD11 or ANSI D2

So SLD have higher carbon contane :)

JBroida
12-18-2012, 03:06 PM
whops... had them reveresed in my mind this morning... thats what i get for being here till 4:30am last night ;) sorry

maxim
12-18-2012, 03:12 PM
You work to much man ;)
whops... had them reveresed in my mind this morning... thats what i get for being here till 4:30am last night ;) sorry

JBroida
12-18-2012, 03:18 PM
lol... i think i work more now than when i was cooking ;)

Chefdog
12-18-2012, 03:27 PM
lol... i think i work more now than when i was cooking ;)

That's saying something right there!!! Ever since I left the restaurant I ALMOST feel guilty for working a "regular" schedule when I talk to buddies who're still there.

Iceman91
12-18-2012, 03:28 PM
I was involved in the passaround that maxim did with the yoshikane suji and i really enjoyed it. Cut well, loved the steel, and the hammered version has really great looks IMO. If it were me, i would go with the yoshikane.

Mike

cclin
12-18-2012, 03:55 PM
not true with regard to carbon content... SKD has higher carbon and is pretty much stainless by all accounts, while SLD will patina easily
I have my Yoshikane SLD over a year. Just wash with water & wipe dry, never polish...... no Patina at all!!

Carbon content of SKD is C: 1.00 SLD is C. 1.40-1.62


Yoshikane uses SKD =SKD 12 or ANSI A2
And SLD = JIS SKD11 or ANSI D2

So SLD have higher carbon contane :)

Maxim, thanks for clear out!!:)

JBroida
12-18-2012, 04:21 PM
yup... i had them reversed... sorry... long night

ChiliPepper
12-18-2012, 07:40 PM
I have a Yoshi SKD petty 150 and the thing can withstand an incredibly acute edge although it does chip a bit if you exaggerate (64ish hrc).
It's the knife that allowed me (still does!) to practice angles and understand a bit better the "angle/edge cutting/edge resistance" relationship.
The core gets a patina quite easily but I think it's a nice contrast with the stainless it's clad with.
That said, it's a bit beefy at the heel and continues to be towards the edge, not sure it's something you'll want in a suji. To be fair, the blade must have an excellent geometry as I've never had any issues in wedging through food but again, maybe it's something that could be exasperated with a suji?
I just bought myself a Yusuke and am waiting patiently. If I were you and lived in the States I'd prob go for a Ginga if you want your suji to be a laser.

ChiliPepper
12-18-2012, 07:48 PM
Now that I think of it there's also another thing: the Masamoto KS is really a single-bevel yanagi rather than a suji whereas the Yoshikane I think is a 50/50 suji allright.
You might want to consider this in making your choice :)

Pensacola Tiger
12-18-2012, 08:01 PM
Now that I think of it there's also another thing: the Masamoto KS is really a single-bevel yanagi rather than a suji whereas the Yoshikane I think is a 50/50 suji allright.
You might want to consider this in making your choice :)

Hmm... I don't think so. The Masamoto is described on JCK as "Double Bevel Edge 50/50", so it is a suji.

ChiliPepper
12-18-2012, 08:05 PM
Hmm... I don't think so. The Masamoto is described on JCK as "Double Bevel Edge 50/50", so it is a suji.

That's right, my mistake! I looked at the same page but being lazy I stopped at the writing in bold at the beginning of the page :D

Chefdog
12-18-2012, 08:10 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like I'm still leaning towards the Yoshi. And still enjoying hearing everyone's opinions and thoughts.

Lefty
12-19-2012, 08:26 AM
This thread has me confused. Haha.

Cadillac J
12-19-2012, 12:37 PM
I have Yoshikane SKD hammered gyuto, and it is my best edge-retention kitchen blade. Even at a 5K finish, the edge remains toothy and bites in easily.

So this might be what you are looking for in a suji; however, I'd be willing to bet the Masamoto would feel much more nimble than the Yosh.

bieniek
12-19-2012, 06:23 PM
Almost no other japanese knife gives you the kind of edge the Masamoto can give you.

It is totally fu king crazy wild kind of edge, if you treat it right.
I dont care, I can sharpen it every 6 hours, its just soo cool feeling to cut with this knife.

The hammered Yoshi is SKD? I would pass...

Salty dog
12-19-2012, 07:04 PM
I'm fond of Masamoto but it will be a light suji.

And I'm in Bienek's camp as far as ajoy to use.

Chefdog
12-19-2012, 08:08 PM
I'm fond of Masamoto but it will be a light suji.

And I'm in Bienek's camp as far as ajoy to use.

Are we talking really light weight like the Ginga and Kono sujis (<100gr)??? There's no measurements up on JCK site for the KS wa knives. I really prefer a little weight, so this might be the straw...

Lars
12-20-2012, 02:08 AM
My 240mm KS suji = 100,7g
I really enjoy using it and it gets a lot of use in my home kitchen.
But i mostly use it for butchering an slicing small cuts of meat.
For slicing big stuff like roasts imo you need a longer, more hefty knife.

Lars

bieniek
12-20-2012, 05:24 AM
You can order KS Masamoto 270mm or 300, no problem, just ask Koki :)

Chefdog
12-20-2012, 07:43 AM
My 240mm KS suji = 100,7g
I really enjoy using it and it gets a lot of use in my home kitchen.
But i mostly use it for butchering an slicing small cuts of meat.
For slicing big stuff like roasts imo you need a longer, more hefty knife.

Lars
Thanks for the weight Lars, that's very helpful.

This knife will be mostly for slicing smaller stuff like duck/chicken breast, trimming and portioning boneless protiens and slicing raw fish. I tend to like slightly heavier knives so this info might've sealed it for the Yoshi.

allumirati
12-20-2012, 07:07 PM
As for semi-stainless steels. Specially SKD and a-type steels I've observed they are not very stable when ground very thin. Which would probably explain why they are both thick knives. But they do take wonderfully bitey edges. My A-type was at it's optimum performance when I only thinned up 1/3 of the blade. When I thinned farther then that I had a hard time keeping a durable edge on it. So in summation I'd say these steels are Ideal for slicing meat and poultry as they have nice bite and these tasks don't require a thin edge. My favorite all around stainless steels have been the fine grained japanese and swedish steel.

add
12-22-2012, 04:44 PM
This knife will be mostly for slicing smaller stuff like duck/chicken breast, trimming and portioning boneless protiens and slicing raw fish. I tend to like slightly heavier knives so this info might've sealed it for the Yoshi.

I really enjoy the Yoshikane and the toothy-ness of the SKD for the heavier proteins.

Having never used it for sashimi... perhaps some tearing might occur?

mpukas
12-22-2012, 06:13 PM
I have a question about the Masamoto KS - is it forged or ground from bar stock?

Chefdog
12-22-2012, 08:15 PM
I really enjoy the Yoshikane and the toothy-ness of the SKD for the heavier proteins.

Having never used it for sashimi... perhaps some tearing might occur?

Thanks, I appreciate the information. For me, this will be mostly trimming & portioning. Although I don't know if the difference in edge quality would be very appearant for me since I usually stop at the 4K level. But, I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on that...

cclin
12-22-2012, 08:26 PM
............ I tend to like slightly heavier knives so this info might've sealed it for the Yoshi.

if you like little hefty knife as me, Yoshi is the one you want...my 240 Masamoto KS gyuto-~165g, Yoshikane SLD 240 gyuto~200g. I like use little heavier knife for proteins....

WiscoNole
12-25-2012, 11:54 PM
You can order KS Masamoto 270mm or 300, no problem, just ask Koki :)

you just rocked my world ;)

bieniek
12-26-2012, 04:07 AM
;)

My buddy just bought 24 masamoto.

Both mine [27] and his have one annoying feature. Both are overground right in the middle of the edge length.
Nothing making it unusable but its there.

chinacats
12-26-2012, 11:23 AM
;)

My buddy just bought 24 masamoto.

Both mine [27] and his have one annoying feature. Both are overground right in the middle of the edge length.
Nothing making it unusable but its there.

Does this happen often w/ the gyutos? I seem to have read about inconsistencies w/ KS...