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View Full Version : What happened to the popularity of these knives?



phasedweasel
12-19-2012, 04:35 PM
Reading through some other threads, I was wondering what happened to some knives that used to be old staples, when I first started reading various boards. So, what happened? Did we learn more? Did the knife just not live up over the years? Did new, better stuff in the price range (maybe CarboNext, maybe Gesshin, maybe Konosuke) appear and crowd it out? Or is it just the case of fashion always changing, as fashions do?

The knives:

1: Tadatsuna: This used to be listed every time Susin Inox was, as an almost equivalent knife. Now I haven't seen the name in years, and in fact it's mention in the "great cutter" thread got me thinking.

2: Yoshikane: People used to sing the praises of the edge-retention of SKD, now I almost never see it mentioned. I have an EE SKD 240 mm Yoshi gyuto, but am somewhat dissatisfied with its thickness. Is part of why people left it? The huge price increases its seen on EE? The san mai construction?

3: Blazen: Wow, this knife was like the most popular thing ever on the KF boards maybe seven years ago. New steels push it out?

Hattori FH: People keep selling these. VG-10 just get out-shinied by the new stainless western handle lasers (Konosuke), and the new quite affordable entry level benchmark knife of CarboNext?

This last one may not belong on the list, but no one seems to push Hiromoto AS then. The name still comes up, but did people get tired of the F/F issues and the existence of better AS knives crowd it out?

Timthebeaver
12-19-2012, 05:07 PM
No longer esoteric/novel enough. Tad is expensive compared to other Sakai layzors. Yoshikane kasumi favoured over skd hammered now.

Lefty
12-19-2012, 05:15 PM
Funny you should bring this up. I've been thinking about cyclical the market is. I can't help but think Tads are every bit as awesome as they ever were. Stefan still loves his Blazens...I just about bought a Hattori FH, yesterday. I dunno...it's just how the market goes. The secret is to love what you love.

James
12-19-2012, 05:33 PM
The aritsugu a type has disappeared too

CompE
12-19-2012, 05:37 PM
Tadatsuna seems to have closed up shop. Their website http://www.itkitchenknife.com/ has been out of commission for many months, or has it been years now? A few months ago I tried send an e-mail to Hideki San, and it was bounced. I've seen threads ask what happened to them with no answers.

phasedweasel
12-19-2012, 05:49 PM
The aritsugu a type has disappeared too

Oh man, Aritsugu! Just the mention of that makes me miss KCMA. We should all get A-types and sharpen them with massively asymmetric, convex bevels :sad0:

James
12-19-2012, 06:19 PM
With a ~10 degree included angle!

AFKitchenknivesguy
12-19-2012, 06:29 PM
At one time I had a Tad Honyaki custom made for me, I miss it. I still have a petty, INOX, that is simply awesome. It can't weigh more than an ounce or two.

mainaman
12-19-2012, 06:35 PM
I think yoshikane is well in demand now.

Duckfat
12-19-2012, 07:09 PM
Ikkanshi-tad is simply an awesome knife. I'm thankful every time I use them I bought when I did. Their shop closed after the Japanese disaster but I have no idea why. I tried to contact Hideki as well with no luck. He was awesome to work with. Some of the sharpest knives OOB I've ever seen. I have a Inox western handled petty, 185mm gyuto and a 270 suj. My only regret is that I didn't order a WA Gyuto as well.

Dave

stevenStefano
12-19-2012, 07:52 PM
I think some of it is cyclical but it is also partly that knives get replaced in visibility by something that is just better and or cheaper. I think the fact that there are so many new custom makers recently who offer amazing value has made some knives less desirable. For some of the more expensive ones, you could go custom for very little more, or sometimes even less.

Chefdog
12-19-2012, 07:57 PM
I finally settled on a Hattori FH gyuto a few months ago after buying and selling several "better" knives with the "best" steel, including a Kono HD. I seriously doubt that any of the knives you mentioned are any less effective than they were when people were lining up to buy them. I certainly have no complaints about my Hattori's performance. It fits well into what I like in a gyuto, while the Kono and the others were every bit as good quality but just didn't meet my personal preferences.

A lot of the guys here enjoy finding something new and chasing that next best knife as part of the hobby. Luckily, I think we're all better off for it, as we now are in a position of having quite an impressive number of excellent knives to choose from that might have never been known had no one ever searched them out.

ecchef
12-19-2012, 08:08 PM
I'm gonna dig up the SKD and bring it to work today. Don't know why I stopped using it....always liked it.

mpukas
12-19-2012, 10:02 PM
Still love my Blazen 270 - one of my favorite knives. It's got everything that we talk about a good knife should have. It it had all of these things before we've hashed them out (not that I've been aorund that long...). The only things I have to say is I prefer a flatter profile - it's dead flat at the heel, but turns up a fair towards the tip; and the edge retention isn't great - a bit tricky to get super sharp, and it doesn't last at all.

I sold my Hattori FH a while ago simply becasue I wasn't using it, as I prefered some other knives and I wanted to try others as well. I do miss it sometimes. Overall, it's one of the most beautiful knives, but there are a few things I find that could use an upgrade - the spin and choil and square, the grind is dead flat on the sides, there's a but too much belly.

RRLOVER
12-19-2012, 10:09 PM
I have bought and sold a"few" blades........I still own my Tad and Yoshi and I doubt if will sell them.

turbochef422
12-19-2012, 10:26 PM
I love trying new knives and can't afford to keep them all. So what was once "hot" is replaced with the new. But honestly once I started getting customs I'm hooked and doubt I'll ever fall into the trendy knife again.

Patatas Bravas
12-20-2012, 01:43 AM
Hello. I think the maker Ikkanshi-tadasuna is still working fine. But now he does not make internet sales on his website, which is closed. Maybe website sales takes too much time and these makers prefer that the other people sell knives for him? But I hear he is still a busy maker with many loyal domestic customers.

Patatas Bravas
12-20-2012, 01:48 AM
Oh, and also found this report on this maker. It is from 2 years but maybe still interesting. Sorry it is in french http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eQ3kumDwts

geezr
12-20-2012, 01:54 AM
Nenox knives were talked about a few years ago.

cookinstuff
12-20-2012, 02:21 AM
I have an Ikkanshi Tadatsuna 240 gyuto, 270 sujihiki, 180 petty, all inox, and a 300 yanagiba in whitesteel. Amazing knives, and I have tried all the big guys. I got them as a good stainless set, and they didn't disapoint.

ChiliPepper
12-20-2012, 03:24 AM
Yeah, I asked myself the same questions. Surely a knife is less subject to fashion mood swings than,say, cars or shoes but I agree with Chefdog that there are (blessed) experimenters and pioneers out there that every now and then stumble unto something good and influence forum aficionados. Af Chefdog says, it's to everybody's advantage!

Patatas Bravas
12-20-2012, 05:23 AM
I have an Ikkanshi Tadatsuna 240 gyuto, 270 sujihiki, 180 petty, all inox, and a 300 yanagiba in whitesteel. Amazing knives, and I have tried all the big guys. I got them as a good stainless set, and they didn't disapoint.

Excuse me but how did you purchase these knives? From the internet? It was long ago?

Duckfat
12-20-2012, 10:13 AM
Stranger things have happened but I think it's very unlikely Ikkanshi is still open and just not doing internet sales. I've spoken to Hideki many times and after the disaster I've never received a single response. I don't think they were physically located any where near the Tsunami but I'd expect the financial devastation to be just as bad.
I'd really like to be wrong about that.

Dave

Yamabushi
12-20-2012, 11:11 AM
It's Japanese only, but I believe this is Tadatsuna-san's current site: http://www.hamono21.co.jp/index2.html

Duckfat
12-20-2012, 11:44 AM
It looks like some one bought the Ikkanshi name although I'm having trouble getting some of the pages to load.
No Inox and a very limited selection. Does any one still have an Ikkanshi catalog to cross check the address?

Dave

labor of love
12-20-2012, 12:46 PM
aframes restocked several tads not too long ago. anybody interested in tads should check with aframestokyo.

Patatas Bravas
12-20-2012, 01:01 PM
About Ikkanshi Tadatsuna, yes they are definitely open. Sorry I don't know about the histories or maybe if the ownership have changed. The proprietor is Toshihiko Nagata, the same man that they said his name in the video clip from 2010 that I put above. The website above is correct also. I know he still produces INOX.

Cadillac J
12-20-2012, 03:02 PM
It is just the nature of hobbyist forums to try and continue evolving...even if the evolution isn't really a step forward, change is still needed and pursued. It doesn't mean any of those knives you listed aren't still amazing pieces (love my Yosh SKD, just mentioned in another thread recently). Not to mention, there has been a boom in new knife offerings in the last two years from both custom and production makers, which provide much more choices nowadays.

Tadatsuna started to become hard to find as many retailers ran out of their inventory, and during that time, Konosuke was everywhere offering very similar knives for much less than both Tads and Suisin IH...it was easy for people to substitute one for the other. And now you barely hear about Konosuke anymore (even far prior to the recent price spike), as people have moved onto pushing Gesshin and renewed interest back to Sakai Yusuke.

It's funny how things can change, but really stay the same, at the same time.

playford
12-20-2012, 03:58 PM
I remember no one wanted nenox's as they were too soft! lol

just fashion.

cnochef
12-20-2012, 04:30 PM
Nenox has also become extremely expensive compared to other production knives. You can get at least a semi-custom and some full customs for the current price of a Nenox. I suspect this is the major reason for their fading appeal.

jaybett
12-20-2012, 08:06 PM
Makers become popular, when a well known member gives them a positive review. Fred over at FF, gave Yoshahiro a boast. While KCMA helped Aritsugu and Tadatsuna.

The forum goal has been to find a maker, with great knives at great prices. Takeda so far is the best example. A thin knife, with AS steel, initially at a low price, that cut as well or better then many higher priced knives. Even after a few price increases, they were a good deal.

Moritaka seemed poised to be the next Takeda, until the issues began to surface. There was a lot of excitement about Konosuke, and then it went away. On the HD series, the main complaint seemed to be they were too light?

The main reason knives fall out of popularity is price. Takeda is a great knife, but at their current price level, would they still be considered a good deal? When a knife becomes common enough, that seems to take some of the bloom off. The Forum knife is a good example.

Jay

tk59
12-20-2012, 10:33 PM
It's a lot of things, pretty much all mentioned here. I'm continually surprised that Glestain doesn't get more pub, as a matter of fact. Once I thinned it just a tad and more recently, ground off some of that thick butt cap, it is very difficult to put down. After seeing what a lot of folks have done to thier A-type, I do understand why they don't get recommended but mine remains among my favorite knives to use, albeit after a lot of modification. Blazen is a very nice knife but I don't see it outperforming other knives in it's price range and general category. I like Yoshikane but I've found them not to be outstanding all around knives, in general. I always try to give reasons why I like knives but in the end it comes down to what I keep wanting to use. Tadatsuna are just like Gesshin, etc but Gesshin takes and holds an nice edge better. My IT sits in my block. I guess I should get rid of it...maybe...nah...

K-Fed
12-20-2012, 11:52 PM
Used my glestain tonight. It was one of my first h knives and I still love it years later. The only thing I feel could be better is the edge retention. Still a fantasticly well made knife that can stand up to a lot of abuse.

K-Fed
12-20-2012, 11:54 PM
Used my glestain tonight. It was one of my first j knives and I still love it years later. The only thing I feel could be better is the edge retention. Still a fantasticly well made knife that can stand up to a lot of abuse.

K-Fed
12-20-2012, 11:55 PM
Double post sorry. iPhone is giving me fits. Lol

Lefty
12-21-2012, 12:23 AM
Another one is Misono. I love mine, as most here know. The increased prices and lack of a new model seems to be keeping them back. With that being said, I still want a UX-10 gyuto. Haha

NO ChoP!
12-21-2012, 12:59 AM
I refurbed a beat up 240 Misono moly gyuto for a coworker today. My expectations were low, but that thing impressed. It was thin and nimble, and took a great edge.
.
I never got the UX10 hype. Doesn't seem all that special.

How about Tojiro DP? Used to be the goto recommendation..

tk59
12-21-2012, 02:49 AM
I refurbed a beat up 240 Misono moly gyuto for a coworker today. My expectations were low, but that thing impressed. It was thin and nimble, and took a great edge.
.
I never got the UX10 hype. Doesn't seem all that special.

How about Tojiro DP? Used to be the goto recommendation..I've used the 440 and UX10 side by side. The UX10 edge seemed to hold up better but not by a lot. The Tojiro DP is a nice knife but the chippiness is a deal breaker for me. Various flavors of moly stainless found in a lot of relatively low cost knives is much more practical, imo.

Duckfat
12-21-2012, 09:06 AM
aframes restocked several tads not too long ago. anybody interested in tads should check with aframestokyo.

I have no idea if they re-stocked with new inventory (I asked but did not get a response to that) but I spoke with Takeshi yesterday and A-frames does have some Ikkanshi-Tads. It looks like the prices have been marked down as well.

Dave

playford
12-21-2012, 09:39 AM
How about Tojiro DP? Used to be the goto recommendation..


Here why for me, You used to be able to get a 240mm DP from JCK for $59.99 + $7 shipping to the uk. This was when the pound to dollar was 2:1 so for just over 30 you got a pretty decent knife.

How about when everyone decided that wantanabe gyutos were "too thick" and he went out of fashion lol.

Takedas are nice but theres no way I'd pay the kind of price they are now.

mikemac
12-21-2012, 10:50 AM
...
I never got the UX10 hype. Doesn't seem all that special...

The UX10 hype was (IMHO) all about the LA Times article's impact on SLT/WS type high end consumers. Re-read the article and all the knives mentioned should have taken off, but "we" consumers seemingly love to skip the details and buy #1 on the list.

mikemac
12-21-2012, 10:53 AM
Here why for me, You used to be able to get a 240mm DP from JCK for $59.99 + $7 shipping to the uk. This was when the pound to dollar was 2:1 so for just over 30 you got a pretty decent knife...

I'm pretty sure that at about the same time, Tojiro replaced the core steel - VG10 replaced cromoly -so you had a related price bump there too.

NO ChoP!
12-21-2012, 11:04 AM
Pointing out Tojiros price hike as singular is silly when every maker has bumped prices by now...still considered relatively affordable, I would think. More so, there's been a slew of other affordable entry levels; enter Carbonext....

playford
12-22-2012, 04:47 AM
It was also that JCK stopped stocking them (no more cheap postage etc) and now the pound to the dollar is 1:1.5 for me. So not such a bargain now!

WiscoNole
12-22-2012, 11:47 AM
I don't think Tadatsuna was ever significantly overpriced. Of course there are much cheaper options for that style of knife, but F&F have been perfect on all 3 of my Tads and the handles, pin and all, are much nicer and more aesthetic than, say, a Sakai Yusuke's. Do the Sakai's come with sayas? Bc Tadatsuna's are (were?) pretty nice.

WiscoNole
12-22-2012, 12:06 PM
The UX10 hype was (IMHO) all about the LA Times article's impact on SLT/WS type high end consumers. Re-read the article and all the knives mentioned should have taken off, but "we" consumers seemingly love to skip the details and buy #1 on the list.

That doesn't explain how it's all over NYC restaurants I worked at

tk59
12-22-2012, 03:42 PM
That doesn't explain how it's all over NYC restaurants I worked atBack when I started out, I remember doing a Google search and UX10 came up several times. I almost ended up getting one as my first high end knife. I'm glad the guy at the local KnifeMerchant convinced me to get a Glestain. A hundred plus knives later, I still love that knife. Anyway, I can see why a lot of folks would get a UX10 after searching the same way I did.

labor of love
12-22-2012, 04:01 PM
hung huynhs knife skills from top chef certainly gave the ux 10 a boost in popularity as well.

Duckfat
12-22-2012, 04:08 PM
IIR Hung may have been the one that made me want that Glestain box so bad....Bastage! :punish:

Dave

James
12-22-2012, 04:23 PM
I'm quite fond of the profile of the UX10s, but the blade geometry leaves something to be desired. The grind is very flat.

labor of love
12-22-2012, 04:35 PM
every time i feel enticed by ux 10, i quickly realize a stainless ashi ginga western would be a nicer and cheaper option.

bieniek
12-22-2012, 05:03 PM
I'm continually surprised that Glestain doesn't get more pub, as a matter of fact. Once I thinned it just a tad and more recently, ground off some of that thick butt cap, it is very difficult to put down.

I did pretty much the same.

Its for sale now, I am very happy I got it for free [damaged] cause I would be mad at myself if I spent so much money on that something.
The steel is a disaster.
Does it take worthy edge? I would just say it cuts.
It feels solid in hand but like made with chewing gum when cutting.

The only thing worth is the food release. The right side really really works.
The flat side however... :D
Is that about preference? I think its measurable whether edge or retention are very good in its segment

phasedweasel
12-22-2012, 08:40 PM
I'm quite fond of the profile of the UX10s, but the blade geometry leaves something to be desired. The grind is very flat.

What do you mean by this, that the grind is too flat? I'm having a hard time picturing it.

EdipisReks
12-22-2012, 09:54 PM
What do you mean by this, that the grind is too flat? I'm having a hard time picturing it.

each side is more a less a straight line from bevel to spine.

Duckfat
12-27-2012, 11:06 AM
Does any one still have an Ikkanshi catalog to cross check the address?


I found the address for Ikkanshi in the past and does look like some change change has taken place. There is mention on the site linked up thread about the change which as best as I can tell says; "Along with the trend of the times, the new one is born, but good old disappears".
Here's the old info Vs the new if any one is interested;

Old Ikkanshi Tadatsuna ;
V&V Logistics Corporation
3-18-21, Nagayoshi-Kawanabe, Hirano-ku, Ōsaka-fu, Japan 547-0014
TEL: +81-(0)6-4302-3700
FAX: +81-(0)6-4302-3600

New;
Nagata Cutlery Co., Ltd.
1 No. 4 Ding Kainochohigashi Sakai-ku, Sakai, Japan 590-0953
TEL: 072-232-2921 / 072-232-1132
FAX: 072-222-1948

tk59
12-27-2012, 03:23 PM
I did pretty much the same.

Its for sale now, I am very happy I got it for free [damaged] cause I would be mad at myself if I spent so much money on that something.
The steel is a disaster.
Does it take worthy edge? I would just say it cuts.
It feels solid in hand but like made with chewing gum when cutting.

The only thing worth is the food release. The right side really really works.
The flat side however... :D
Is that about preference? I think its measurable whether edge or retention are very good in its segment

Glestain does not have a flat side. Yes, the steel is softer. I do not have problems with burrs or wire edges. The edge isn't like carbon but it performs far better than a Wusthof or Henckels or Forschner. I like to sharpen mine on a coticule. Edge holding and performance is decent. Mine cuts much better than chewing gum, lol. Frankly, that's ridiculous. Steel is less than half the story, imo. As long as the steel is decent (which it is) 90% of performance is grind and sharpening. Once you figure out how to put a good edge on it (It's not hard.), it is an excellent knife.

Rottman
12-27-2012, 03:44 PM
Old Ikkanshi Tadatsuna ;
V&V Logistics Corporation
3-18-21, Nagayoshi-Kawanabe, Hirano-ku, Ōsaka-fu, Japan 547-0014
TEL: +81-(0)6-4302-3700
FAX: +81-(0)6-4302-3600

New;
Nagata Cutlery Co., Ltd.
1 No. 4 Ding Kainochohigashi Sakai-ku, Sakai, Japan 590-0953
TEL: 072-232-2921 / 072-232-1132
FAX: 072-222-1948

IIRC V&V logistics was only a distributor and not the IT address.

bieniek
12-27-2012, 05:24 PM
Glestain does not have a flat side. Yes, the steel is softer. I do not have problems with burrs or wire edges. The edge isn't like carbon but it performs far better than a Wusthof or Henckels or Forschner. I like to sharpen mine on a coticule. Edge holding and performance is decent. Mine cuts much better than chewing gum, lol. Frankly, that's ridiculous. Steel is less than half the story, imo. As long as the steel is decent (which it is) 90% of performance is grind and sharpening. Once you figure out how to put a good edge on it (It's not hard.), it is an excellent knife.


Yeah. Sure.

That is much better explanation then the knife being piece of crap. At least I like it ;)

Yamabushi
12-27-2012, 11:28 PM
New;
Nagata Cutlery Co., Ltd.
1 No. 4 Ding Kainochohigashi Sakai-ku, Sakai, Japan 590-0953
TEL: 072-232-2921 / 072-232-1132
FAX: 072-222-1948

This is the address listed on the site I linked to earlier: It is this the Romanized version of this address: 堺市堺区甲斐町東1丁1番4号 〒590-0953. I'd write it slightly differently, like this:

1-1-4 Kainochōhigashi, Sakai-shi, Sakai-ku, Japan 590-0953


The workshop address is also listed as: 堺市堺区柳之町西3丁8番3号. No postal code is shown but here is the Romanized version of the workshop address:

3-8-3 Yanaginochōnishi, Sakai-shi, Sakai-ku, Japan

RobinW
12-28-2012, 04:40 PM
No difference if IT is still in business, but i just put my white 240 gyuto back in rotation and it is a brilliant knife :biggrin: