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View Full Version : Ageing of knifes vs price.



bathonuk
12-20-2012, 06:00 AM
Hi people. I had a nice conversation in my work about spending money. It is obvious that it is individual case so for one person buying a knive for 400 will be normal, for another person spending 400 on new graphic card every year will be ok and for next person 400 for Gucii shoes will be just fine. I've gave you those specific examples because we used them in our chat. So I started to think about it. Graphic card will loose valuation after 6 months, Gucci shoes (or any other shoes) will definitely loose valuation or they might be damaged but what about knifes?? Let's say that we've got hi-end knife, made by famous blacksmith and we are taking care about it?? Is it going to loose it's valuation let's say after 20 years?? What do you think??

franzb69
12-20-2012, 06:12 AM
if the said blacksmith is no longer with us and if he was especially gifted and if the knife itself was especially made well then it won't lose too much in value so long as it's in great condition and lovingly used.

besides if it was unused and it was like what i mentioned, then it might even go up in price.

=D

that's just my opinion though.

Pensacola Tiger
12-20-2012, 09:23 AM
In real estate they say "location, location, location" but for knives, it's "condition, condition, condition".

If the knife has been cared for and still has life, it may well be worth the same or more in 20 years.

echerub
12-20-2012, 10:09 AM
If it's a gyuto, it would also depend on the fashions at the time when you want to sell. Single-bevels don't seem to have such waves of fashion, but we certainly see it for gyutos over even short 2-3 year timeframes :)

zitangy
12-20-2012, 10:18 AM
graphic card becomes obsolete within 6 months. that's teh nature of the IT industry and it does seem that prices gets cheaper all the time!

Gucii.. Fashion is fickle adn it may come back .

Knives.. the Design Shouldn't change much and not much has changed with the exception of the material used ( possibly enhanced in processing) due to the ever changing evolution and of technology adn cost of materials used.

whatever the item is.. at the end of the day.. it is the level of satisfaction derived.

If my knife cost $1000 and i use it every day.. then the cost per use is really low for say 20 years. $50 dollars per year and .

There's another intangible factor that matters for some people... pride of ownership, bragging rights etc.

so it's different strokes for different folks..

rgds
d

JMJones
12-20-2012, 01:00 PM
This is a much discussed topic on other knife forums where many of the collectors have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in their knife collection. What I have taken from it is that it depends allot on the type of knife, the reason you bought it and how much you paid. If it is a kitchen knife and it is well taken care of and is from a respected maker, and you paid for it based on the value of the tool and its utility, then I would say you have a very good chance of getting most of your money back or maybe more.

Now if you bought the knife from a hot maker or someone you believed would be the next hot maker and how much you paid for it become major variables. A few quick scenarios of which there are the potential for many more:
Hot Maker- You pay top dollar- makers popularity declines- you will probably lose money on the sale
Hot Maker- you pay top dollar- Makers popularity increases- you will make money on the sale
Potential Hot Maker- you get a good deal because he is just making a name- popularity increases- you will make money
Potential Hot Maker- you get a good deal because he is just making a name- he never catches on in popularity- you will lose money.

quantumcloud509
12-20-2012, 01:27 PM
This is a much discussed topic on other knife forums where many of the collectors have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in their knife collection. What I have taken from it is that it depends allot on the type of knife, the reason you bought it and how much you paid. If it is a kitchen knife and it is well taken care of and is from a respected maker, and you paid for it based on the value of the tool and its utility, then I would say you have a very good chance of getting most of your money back or maybe more.

Now if you bought the knife from a hot maker or someone you believed would be the next hot maker and how much you paid for it become major variables. A few quick scenarios of which there are the potential for many more:
Hot Maker- You pay top dollar- makers popularity declines- you will probably lose money on the sale
Hot Maker- you pay top dollar- Makers popularity increases- you will make money on the sale
Potential Hot Maker- you get a good deal because he is just making a name- popularity increases- you will make money
Potential Hot Maker- you get a good deal because he is just making a name- he never catches on in popularity- you will lose money.

Sounds about right.

l r harner
12-20-2012, 02:13 PM
i liek that run down and at the end of the day is you can say its worth XX$ in your collection but till its sold you cant put a true price on it

stevenStefano
12-20-2012, 02:22 PM
It's tricky but I'd say in most cases if you have a well looked-after knife it'll gain in value. Most knifemakers increase their prices at some point. It's also the case that the more you spend the more the knife will increase in value. If you buy a Kono HD it's not gonna appreciate as much as a Shigefusa. It is also the case that some knives get less popular because there are cheaper/better options so you are never gonna get back what you paid for them.

cclin
12-20-2012, 02:59 PM
i liek that run down and at the end of the day is you can say its worth XX$ in your collection but till its sold you cant put a true price on it

that is so true! the market value price and true value price are way different! its all depend on market demand.....I has a Gil Hibben custom knife which he sold one for $10,000 on the knife show. Gil made special one for me with Damascus blade. I have been try to sell the knife for $8000 for years.......there just no market/buyer now-a-days:sad0:
BTW, anybody interesting???:D

kalaeb
12-20-2012, 03:25 PM
I guess it all depends on whether you are getting knives for use or collecting.

ChiliPepper
12-20-2012, 05:03 PM
Yeah, I can hardly see a kitchen knife that's been thoroughly used for years being an investment in terms of dollars should you decide to sell it.
If it's unused it's prob a different story. I could see an unused Hattori KD fit as an example. Or some of those fancy multi-color damascus knives JCK got in its "special" section.
Or any custom made by our talented knife makers here (in that case the clause of the maker being alive or not DOESN'T apply!!!!)

bathonuk
12-20-2012, 07:07 PM
Let's take my Suisin Densyo 27cm Yanagiba. It cost me about 400 pounds including shipping and duty fee so it's about 650 $ and now it's even more because those knifes are more expensive. I am a home cook so I don't have opportunity to use it every day so I think that it still will be in perfect condition in let's say 20 years. This is not a collectible knife but pro kitchen knife from very good blacksmith. Do you think that it will loose it's valuation??

jaybett
12-20-2012, 10:43 PM
The antique shows here in the states, mention how much to insure a product to replace it, versus how much the item might fetch at auction.

The cost of a new knife has risen, since your purchase was made. If you were to try to sell your knife at what you paid, I doubt you would find any buyers. Most used items, especially those that are still being made, have to be discounted enough, so a buyer will feel its worth their while to take a chance on a used knife, instead of a new one.

Unless its a knife that was purchased, before the maker raised their prices significantly, i.e. Kramer, and to a certain extent Butch, it would be hard to imagine making a profit on a kitchen knife.

The most valuable knife Andy777, had in his collection was a Butch cleaver. It was not the most expensive knife. He got Butch to make it, early in his career. When Andy finally had to settle down, he sold off most of his collection. I was offered the opportunity, to buy the Butch cleaver at a fairly low price. Andy was even kind enough to send me the knife to try it out. It was a great cleaver, but I already had a enough cleavers, that I wasn't using, so I declined.

Andy had been away for the forums for a time, I let him know that Butch's work had gone up significantly, since he purchased the cleaver. I thought he should at least start the offering price at $600, which was a premium price for a cleaver. Instead he put up the cleaver for $500, and it sold in minutes. Until a knife is put up for sale, who knows how much it will get?

I don't know if the Suisin Densyo series is the same as the Densho series, but the Densho appears to be as good as it gets, before Honyaki. I'd think that 20 great years of use, out of a high end yanigaba, would be worth more then what you paid for it.

Jay

bathonuk
12-21-2012, 02:38 PM
Yes Jaybett it is the same series. You can see both names at JKI web site. I am paying more attention to having a great knife in my collection and I deeply regret that I don't have more opportunity to use it:/

Seth
12-23-2012, 05:02 PM
Appraisers have many definitions of value; use value, insurable value, market value, fair market value, investment value, etc. and there really is not a true value outside of being tied to the type of value. OP, I think, is asking about market value. While price is what is actually paid for something in a given transaction, market value is what should have been paid. Buyers and sellers will over/under pay for stuff at times, but this is not value. Staples will grossly overpay for land if it suits their business purpose to put a dent in the market share of OfficeMax at a given location and geographic market. Market value definitions include such things as an active market, buyers and sellers acting knowledgeably, value as of a specific date, etc.

With personal property we do have some general (with exceptions) observations: the depreciation is rapid early on and flattens later, historical significance plays a role with art objects/collectables, condition is a factor, fashion is a factor. All of the factors are subsumed under supply and demand. The best way to determine the value of a 40 year old Doi in good condition is to look at sales of 40 year old Doi's in good condition. If it is in fair condition, you can look at the percent difference in sales of significant knives in good vs. fair condition.

The problem of course is there may not be an active secondary market to look at. So we try to find the closet thing; some other well known yanagiba maker and maybe make some comments about the relationship to Doi. As you get further away from the original object, value assertions become more tenuous.

Watches let's say: some watches are just watches until they are 150 years old. Rolex has an active secondary market and can be valued fairly easily.

I buy knives to use but I keep in the back of my mind whether they will hold value. I often wonder whether my shig with original handle will be worth less or more than the one with the Marko handle 20 years from now. Will the scene be, in 50 years: "it is a shame the original handle is missing from this fine example of Mr. Shig, Sr.'s work.....

eshua
12-23-2012, 06:21 PM
Yes condition, but think of it this way... I may over sharpen a knife in a professional kitchen, but to sharpen it down to worthless still takes more than 20 years, and isn't that more than enough use for 400$? Easier to wear out a graphics card fan or a pair of shoes.