its pretty easy IMO to find a 150-250ish knife that can outperform shuns, globals, german stainless and hattori FH. i dont really think were filling a void there. i think the spirit of this project is to make an american made performer with a great grind, steel, heat treat from a factory with american materials. that is what will separate this knife from everything else out there, right? as long as the handle has a comfortable in hand feel, im happy.
i also dont want to make a vintage knife replica, but a modern knife that pays homage to the knife making history america had once(lamson). does that make sense?
The new mock up looks great. Doesn't need a spacer from my perspective.
I didn't read through all 40 some pages but I followed for the first 10 or so, I thought the idea was to produce a high quality, American made knife that pays homage to the old American maker ie forge craft and the like but with better quality materials. I would be interested if we could keep the knife as cheap as possible with ought sacrificing quality. To that end is there anything wrong with solid g10 scales? Nothing fancy just simple black or the like 2-3 pins and a decent blade.
please excuse the first person point of view in my last post. im not doing anything besides being a keyboard critic lol. it is interesting that we figured out steel and profile pretty quick compared to handle and bolster decisions. i hope we can find a happy middle ground that everyone can be happy with.
I like the new mock up a lot. would prefer it with a silver spacer too but if not I think we'll live.
I understand the original goal was a throwback design. A solid carbon steel (O1) A solid retro-ish profile (A tweaked sab profile) Natural stable wood (cocobolo)
The hickups were on which handle. This is where we explored new territory. Some wanted wa, some wanted western, some bolsters, some no bolsters, some one pin some 3 pins. This made it tough to please everybody 100%. Ain't gonna happen...
So Here are my thoughts, to take some of most of the wants and make a handle that when looked at is understated and different, yet embodies the spirit of what we started to create.
How can a geometric octagonal Wa, and a curvy western be combined? I tried to combine the taper of a wa, the height and width of a western, the facets of a wa, and some of the westerns curves and feel. How do we do a cross on a bolster, and no bolster... we cant. BUT, we can use materials that are visually subdued, and still aesthetically pleasing. Copper wasn't the answer, or the first mockup, so back to the drawing board. G10 shaped to match the facets on the handle.
How do we pay homage to the handles of old, yet not make a copy? To that end, we have the flats and beveled corners, slightly tapering handle, with three pins. Why not a traditional wood. No real reason, only there are other choices that have nice figure, are solid, and relatively stable. Why add G10? I think capping the end of the handle at the "food" end makes sense for cleanliness, comfort, and looks. Check out some of the 50 plus year old knives with straight wood handles out there. The fronts are stained, chipped, splitting, lifting etc. Could we have gone that route? Yes. Is there a real reason apart from historical accuracy to do it? I don't know. We are paying homage to an old style, top materials, and having it built by the oldest knife maker, I think, in North America. We have a chance to build the next classic (hopefully!) with input from a large group of knife enthusiasts who can say "we were part of that".
I don't want to sound corny (too late I fear! lol!) there is no way to please all of you who posted ideas, but we took what most of you liked, and trashed most of what you didn't like. All the while trying to keep some tradition in the design, and bring that tradition into the present.
Look at it this way. We have designed a knife from the ground up in a week that may not be historically accurate, but has its roots in history. When you look at it, you will see Sab, Forgecraft, and even Lamson.
We agreed to use a company that hasn't been given the time of day around here, give them a chance to do it our way, and generated some excitement doing it! Nearly 14000 views in a week! Either your interested in the knife, or your interested in the process of the design, but hell! Thanks for being part of it!
Now. Any other things we need to work on? We got time and resources! A prototype is next!
Still at the hospital, waiting, but, VERY well said Pierre. I knew I partnered up with the right guy (2 years ago, but that's neither here nor there).
I've gotta get in on a prototype pass around if there is one.
Meanwhile, lets make a list of things that are locked down and things that are still being messed with so we can focus our further efforts on refinement towards the Alpha stage.
How far do we want to go in terms of F/F? What can we reasonably expect from a semi mass produced knife? The first relatively pricey knife I bought was the THAT Hattori, and the spine/choil was quite sharp. Probably my biggest gripe with that knife besides the steel. I'm assuming that rounding the spine and choil will be a given. But what about easing the heel? Makes it much easier when wiping the blade between use. And what type of finish? I'm not a big fan of mirror finishes mostly because they seem a bit stickier to me, and seem to diminish very quickly with heavy use.
Finish will be similar to a scotch brite finish, just more refined. Choil and spine nicely rounded. We can soften the heel if that is a design addition agreed to by the masses. Fit and finish? Tight!
Profile (waiting on input for the heel)
Steel - O1
Hardness - HRC 62 +- .5
Finish - Satin machine finish
Geometry - Convexed?
Handle material - Cocobolo and G10
Handle shape - Mock up #2
Pins - 3 Maybe a larger center pin, no mosaic
Spacer - a thin one to match the pin?
Spine and Choil - Rounded
The red is what I need confirmation on. Anything else Speak up!!