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rdpx

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Hi there

I recently decided it was time to buy a new kitchen knife as my 10 year old Sabatier, though still sharpening nicely, is getting a bit chipped and should perhaps be retired to become a general purpose chicken bone chopper/knife to be abusd etc....

I thought it would be straightforward but once I started looking into it I am totally lost. It seems the more you find out, the more you find there is that you don't know. I would love to just be able to go spend £150 (I am in UK) but realistically budget is under £100.

So maybe I can throw myself on your mercy with a few options that I have been looking at, and see what that throws up.

Here is what I have found so far that seem like nice deals...

1. Zwilling JA Henckels Four Star 200mm chef's knife [£49.95 including a pair of scissors & sharpener! This just seems like a great deal.

http://www.hartsofstur.com/acatalog/Henckels-Four-Star-Chef-s-Knife---Scissor-Set-35176_004.html


2. Wusthof Classic 20cm chef's knife [- £60 reduced from £90 in a local store.]


3. Tojiro 210mm gyuto - £55 - pretty sure this is the DP knife F-808?

http://www.millyskitchenstore.co.uk/EcobyTojiroKnives21cmChefsKnife-Product-15932.html


4. Suisin high carbon steel gyuto - around £75 delivered

http://www.korin-france.fr/nos-collections/couteaux-japonais-par-utilisations/chefs-knife-gyutou/suisin-high-carbon-steel-gyutou.html


5. Togiharu Inox Steel Gyuto - around £85 delivered

http://www.korin-france.fr/nos-collections/couteaux-japonais-par-utilisations/chefs-knife-gyutou/togiharu-inox-steel-gyutou.html

6. KC141 180mm Gyuto - £89

http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/KNIVES/LAMINATEDSTEEL/WARIKOMECOLLECTION/GYUTOMULTIPURPOSECHEFSKNIFE180MM.aspx

7 Zanmai PRA - £59 - seems like I might not love cheap looking plastic handle?

http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/KNIVES/SINGLELAYERHIGHCARBONSTEEL/PRO/GYUTOMultiPurposeChefsKnife180MM.aspx


So there you go. Leaning towards the number 6, but also tempted by 1 and 5.

[FYI - I have a japanese whetstone 240/1000]

I generally use a pinch grip if that is relevant.


Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Especially if any of you are familiar with any of these knives.

Thank you

Robert
 
Welcome to the forum!

Thanks!!

I meant to say this was a first time post. I guess you all can tell though. It was always finding google links to this site that made me think it might be worth asking on here!

:(:O:)
 
Welcome, you are in the right place. Take a look around on the "Buy Sell Trade" threads here. You may find an incredible deal that's close to home. I believe Bieniek has a good looking Glestain for around 100us dollars.
 
Chipping with Sabatier, carbon or stainless, is far from common. How do you sharpen, and would you care to show some pix? I think we should clear this up before even thinking about another knife.
 
Just to throw another spanner in the works, have a look at http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ Your knife will reach you in the UK in about 4 working days with no customs hold up. Choice number 6 is from japaneseknifecompany.com which are regarded to be quite an over priced business (just like most uk pages!).
 
Hello and welcome! Of the options you listed #3 Tojiro DP and the #5 Togiharu would be my choices of value and performance. The handle of the Tojiro will be perhaps a hair larger, so great if you have large hands. the handle of the Togiharu perhaps a bit less bulky, but the difference is slight. Both have high quality materials and workmanship. Togiharu perhaps a tad nicer, but definitely not 30.00 of difference.

You might also need to factor in some extra budget for water stones....I would suggest following your 1000 grit stone with a Besuton/Bester 2000 grit and Suehiro Rika 5000.
 
I'd stay the hell away from UK knife vendors to be honest, they are all a total rip-off. I'd recommend something from JCK due to the cheap shipping, or other European vendors. Can you explain a little more what you'd like? I'd recommend you get a gyuto that is at least 240mm
 
Chipping with Sabatier, carbon or stainless, is far from common. How do you sharpen, and would you care to show some pix? I think we should clear this up before even thinking about another knife.

Although I don't know much about Sabatiers, I agree that it could well be the sharpening rather than the knife.
 
Chipping with Sabatier, carbon or stainless, is far from common. How do you sharpen, and would you care to show some pix? I think we should clear this up before even thinking about another knife.

It is probably 11 years old, and was pretty cheap at the time (I think about £25?) it has also been pretty badly abused - handle also cracked through years of going through a dishwasher (i know i know)

How do I sharpen? I rub it along the stone first the rough then the smooth one until it is nice and sharp. It seems to work for me though I am sure I may not be doing it 100% correctly.

Been trying to upload a pic but cant get camera to share pic with computer right now! That was a waste of 45 minutes!!
 
Why? Gyutos that size don't chip?

I'd say they would chip as much as any other size of knife, just that it seems to be a pretty popular size if you're gonna spend a bit of cash. I started off with 180s and 210s, then 240 and now 270.
 
Just to throw another spanner in the works, have a look at http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ Your knife will reach you in the UK in about 4 working days with no customs hold up. Choice number 6 is from japaneseknifecompany.com which are regarded to be quite an over priced business (just like most uk pages!).

Are you sure about the no customs charges?
I thought it was 20% or something import tax on knives?

Nice to hear JKC is overpriced before I make mistake of buying! Does that knife I linked to look good though and what price should it be?

It seems all knives are "REDUCED 50%" so hard to know what "real" price is of anything.... hence coming here!
 
yes i think it is probably the sharpening!

or maybe because i have used it to cut through duck carcasses and duck leg bones.....
 
I'd stay the hell away from UK knife vendors to be honest, they are all a total rip-off. I'd recommend something from JCK due to the cheap shipping, or other European vendors. Can you explain a little more what you'd like? I'd recommend you get a gyuto that is at least 240mm

Nice to know - why are UK so expensive? Anyone have any idea?

It seems no-one is mentioning the Henckels 4 star or the Wusthof choices - is it all japan on here?

What do I want ? - just general chef's knife. One I have is 20cm and I have never had a problem with the size which is why I am looking at similar now.

Ideally something that will be a pleasure to use, and to look at, and to know I have a great knife - I guess an entry level serious knife as I can;t really afford to go spending £100+
 
The JCK site seems really great - but I am still a bit lost in there. It kind of looks like the kind of site where they only sell decent knives, so I can't really go wrong?

There seem to be a few in my price range on there. If anyone could weight in with what they reckon are the best of the low end ranges on there that would be great.

Scott6452, can you please clarify what you said about the "no customs hold-up" ?

Thanks
 
I'd say they would chip as much as any other size of knife, just that it seems to be a pretty popular size if you're gonna spend a bit of cash. I started off with 180s and 210s, then 240 and now 270.

As money is an issue I am happy with a 210mm knife (possibly even 180mm?) thus meaning I can buy a better one!
 
Yeh koki from Japanese chefs knives marks the item value at $20 or something so it sails through customs no problem. On all my trackings, they are literally in customs for under an hour. I've had about 5 orders from them to uk and no problems any time.
 
Yeh koki from Japanese chefs knives marks the item value at $20 or something so it sails through customs no problem. I've had about 5 orders from them to uk and no problems any time.


aha this is great information thanks Scott.
$7 postage is amazingly cheap as well.
Am I right to think they are all good then, or would you recommend any, or staying away from any?
Thanks again.
 
Thanks for the pic! I must humbly admit I've seen one of these chipping before. That one after fifteen years of dishwasher.
 
Take a look at the Fujiwara from JCK...this is the stainless variety.

http://japanesechefsknife.com/FKMSeries.html

If you are interested in carbon...

http://japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html

You really need to come up with a maintenance plan/storage plan before you spend too much on a new blade, that Sab needs some love.

Thanks CC.

The FKH look very nice - is there much benefit over stainless?

Are these knives better than all the ones in my original post?


I was wondering if I could push the spend to go for a MISONO Swedish Steel, but I think that way madness lies and I will keep going up and buy a HATTORI which I would probably just destroy.

These ones look like they are on "special" but I found a reference to this special price on a forum that is about 18 months old, so I guess not so special:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html
 
You really need to come up with a maintenance plan/storage plan before you spend too much on a new blade, that Sab needs some love.

Yes well I guess

1. no more dishwasher
2. learn to sharpen properly
3. keep on magnetic strip

Re: the Sab - what should I do? Should I grind it back to get rid of the chips? Is this easy to do - ie is there a video or something that would show me what to do? The sab is basically going to end up as a knife for rough jobs, but might as well make it as nice as possible, right?
 
I guess it's just a thin layer of steel that has got weakened by the aggressive salts used with the dishwasher. Give it a try.
Carbon blades can take finer edges but do require some serious maintenance effort. They sharpen very easily. Both the FKH and Misono are the most reactive in the world, and both are strongly asymmetric - right biased.
To see what carbon means in daily life, get a carbon peeler by Robert Herder, Solingen with
edenwebshops.co.uk
or find a carbon Opinel.
 
I guess it's just a thin layer of steel that has got weakened by the aggressive salts used with the dishwasher. Give it a try.
Carbon blades can take finer edges but do require some serious maintenance effort. They sharpen very easily. Both the FKH and Misono are the most reactive in the world, and both are strongly asymmetric - right biased.
To see what carbon means in daily life, get a carbon peeler by Robert Herder, Solingen with
edenwebshops.co.uk
or find a carbon Opinel.

I have about three of the OPINEL pocket knives. All beautiful.
Actually this whole kitchen knife thing started when my partner came home with an OPINEL No.118 chef's knife. Only £32 and very nice, but the wooden handle was very badly fitted so she returned it. I got involved and all of a sudden knives cost £250!!! Which is why I am trying to keep budget down.

So - no-one likes the Zwilling JA Henckels 4 star 20cm cooks knife? I am real tempted by the price of it and a pair of scissors thrown in, but saying that I love all things japanese.

Maybe I should just buy two knives?
 
Expect the Zwilling to have about the same steel as your stainless Sab, cost at least the double, perform less, be much heavier, have a fat profile with a higher tip and a relatively thick geometry.
You may try a stainless Fujiwara FKM, experience what difference weight, profile and geometry can make, and decide what you prefer.
 
The reason 240mm is recommended to newer members also has to do with weight I believe. Even at 240mm a Gyuto will be lighter and more well balanced than a typical German blade of 210mm. So you can go up a size, have a more functional blade and still be nimble and more controlled compared to the blade heavy German steel.
 
These ones look like they are on "special" but I found a reference to this special price on a forum that is about 18 months old, so I guess not so special:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html

The CarboNext line is frequently recommended to people in your situation by experienced members of this forum. There is a 210 (which happens to be in the UK) for sale in the Buy/Sell/Trade section of the forum right now: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/10127-FS-210mm-Carbonext-Gyuto-UK-EU

Good luck with your decision, and welcome!
 
In general, I wouldn't go for a used one as a first Japanese unless you get it from an experienced sharpener. There might be too much work involved you've no experience with.
 
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