Dechipping my old Sabatier.... and looking for new knife.

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rdpx

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With thanks to Benuser and particularly Chinacats, who on my first thread the other day told me that before I worried too much about a new knife, I should pour a little bit of love onto my abused but lovely old Sabatier.

So here is a BEFORE/AFTER photograph of what I did, which I am sure is a fairly amateur job, but I am after all an amateur, and a beginner at that.

5n7Lts8.jpg


This was done using a #240 whetstone for about 40 minutes or so, followed by #1000 to clean it up a while.

It is a fine old 8" knife - after reading stuff on here I even weighed it at about 200g, and measured the thickness, at about 2mm.

>

Still on my quest to find a new knife to replace it with, I am leaning towards a Carbonext, as all advice seems to be that they are a great deal - I am far from decided though, and price of whetstones needed may yet affect my final choice. Tempted by the Inazuma Wa Gyuto or Hattori HD at slightly higher price, love idea of the Hattori FH but price just too high for me I think as first J knife. Might also have to settle for the Fujiwara FKM.

Regarding stones:

As I already have a #240/#1000 stone [GF's old Global with the #1000 side barely used] should I just buy myself a finer grade stone? Or should I get a finer combi stone? Not sure how fine I need, or what incerements should be. What I have learned is that the #1000 is the rough start option, rather than the "fine finish" I had thought it was !

Three options I have seen are:-

1. 3000/8000 http://www.richmondcookshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=340&products_id=4704&osCsid=crmeoh9uod4skla0fdp0lja5s6

2. 3000 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TANAKAYA-Sharpening-Stone-Whetstone-3000-Made-in-Japan-Japanese-Sharpener-/230884753381?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c1cdbfe5

3. the 6000 from here: http://japanesechefsknife.com/WhetStonesForSale.html


One last thing - I was fairly settled on a 210mm knife, but many posts here are making me think I need a 240mm as almost every other post seems to say "i need a longer Gyuto". Do you all think I will regret the shorter knife? :scared4:

Thanks again to CC and B!

Robert
 
If you are a pro, you always need a longer knife :D but that's because you are looking for speed. Example, cut two potatoes at once rather than one. At home with no rush? Meh. What feels better in your hand? 210 or 240?

If you get another stone, I don't think you need anything more than a 6000 stone.

Not sure of your shipping limitations. The Carbonext is a good knife in my opinion, I have nothing bad to say about it. But... I think the Geshin Ginga is a better knife. My two cents.

-AJ
 
Nice work on the sab

Was a carbonext in the BST already in the UK which is a good deal.
Stones wise you could get a king 4k and/or a strop and compound as the budget option, or for more money could go for a nicer finishing stone and strop.
 
Not sure of your shipping limitations. The Carbonext is a good knife in my opinion, I have nothing bad to say about it. But... I think the Geshin Ginga is a better knife. My two cents.

-AJ

But this knife is $100 more expensive though, right?

I am sure there are better knives than the Ginga as well, if you want to keep upping the cost, no?
 
Nice work on the sab

Was a carbonext in the BST already in the UK which is a good deal.
Stones wise you could get a king 4k and/or a strop and compound as the budget option, or for more money could go for a nicer finishing stone and strop.

i am afraid i don't really understand the terminology - compound, strop etc?
 
If you are a pro, you always need a longer knife :D but that's because you are looking for speed. Example, cut two potatoes at once rather than one. At home with no rush? Meh. What feels better in your hand? 210 or 240?

If you get another stone, I don't think you need anything more than a 6000 stone.

Not sure of your shipping limitations. The Carbonext is a good knife in my opinion, I have nothing bad to say about it. But... I think the Geshin Ginga is a better knife. My two cents.

-AJ


yes its just home use.
I am used to a 8" Sabatier - though I guess an extra inch is not going to feel crazily large. It all adds cost though.
I notice the UX10 rockets in price between 210 and 240 (like an extra $100)

So are you saying that you think I would be fine with the #1000 followed by a #6000 stone?
 
I'd grab the carbonext in the BST, and a 6k and call it done. You can definitely go 1k to 6k (I do all the time).
 
But this knife is $100 more expensive though, right?

I am sure there are better knives than the Ginga as well, if you want to keep upping the cost, no?

Whoops . You are correct I did not realize they were $100 apart though I would still argue the Ginga is better bang for the buck. By tonight there will be 10 other opinions on that. An in-betweener would be an Ashi,; very very close the the Ginga. The Ginga is just more refined. I agree with Lefty. Get the Carbonext that's up for sale. And absolutely you can jump from 1000 to 6000. Many may even say that is ideal.

-AJ
 
....One last thing - I was fairly settled on a 210mm knife, but many posts here are making me think I need a 240mm as almost every other post seems to say "i need a longer Gyuto". Do you all think I will regret the shorter knife?.....

I don't think so. You've got more control with a smaller knife. I think my 210 is more than big enough. Most of the time I use a 180 usuba (vegetable/salad preparation). Given that you've had the same sized knife for years, so why change? You're obviously happy with the smaller sized knives. Nice job on the chips by the way. With regards sharpening stones, I've only gotten serious about them recently and like yourself had one smallish combination stone. Now I've got a 1200 grit King and a Suehiro 5000. At present I can't see the need to go any finer. The 5000 grit gives a mirror like shine as it is. These bigger knife stones (210X70) are pure luxury.
 
I don't think so. You've got more control with a smaller knife.

BS. the knife i find to be most precise is my big Heiji, which is 280mm on the edge. it goes exactly where i want it to, due to a combination of geometry and weight. my little Heiji, which is 250 on the edge, is not as easy to place, though it's a "handier" knife, as the big Heiji is big. my second most precise is my little Robert Herder carbon sheep's foot parer. my many other knives are in between. length doesn't mean much, when it comes to control.
 
Trapper Keepers outsell Porsche 917s, too. i wonder which one goes around the Nurburgring quicker. i don't use a knife at all to peel an apple. welcome to my ignore list.
 
BS. the knife i find to be most precise is my big Heiji, which is 280mm on the edge. it goes exactly where i want it to, due to a combination of geometry and weight.

BS? Of course it's BS (I'll just say that again to come across like a real DH) because if you want to peel an apple you grab a 300mm Chinese cleaver. Could be BS but I read somewhere that 210 gyutos out sell bigger models by a huge margin. Of course they could, like myself, all be full of BS. Next time I want to tighten that pesky 10mm nut on push my bike I'll stop off at the tractor shed to use that 1 metre long adjustable because bigger tools always give you better precision.
 
As you can tell, size is a very personal issue. Choose what you think you will like, as has been stated, J-knives tend to feel a bit smaller than European knives due to weight and balance.

Good job on the Sab!
 
Great work on the sab! No, you don't need a finer stone with soft European stainless. Finer stones are counterproductive with those.

Buying a used blade as your first Japanese is still a bad idea, I think.
The geometry of Japanese knives is very different from our Western ones. A lot of users tend to ignore it, and notice crazy steering or wedging after a few inadequate sharpenings. That's the moment they decide to sell it.
As you don't know them yet very well, you won't recognize a messed up geometry from the pix, and you haven't yet the knowledge or experience to deal with it.
 
Wow, this thread has gotten heated! I'm not one to start arguments (or am I?), but it's almost good to see a bit of passion on here, and not the usual, "Here's what I got. How much can I hock it for" type of thread/post, or the same crap being regurgitated from one member onto a new member. Anyways....

I'm a big fan of the "small knives", owning several in the 180 range, and I still love my 210 gyuto. It's almost 210 suji height, and I see why they were the hot size for a while there. A 210 will do everything you need in a home kitchen, but you'll occasionally notice you wish you had some extra length. In my experience, this is more for large, stubborn items, such as squash and occasionally huge sweet potatoes, etc. with that being said, as it stands, I could happily live with just my 210 gyuto and a couple parers (if I didn't have a knife addiction).

Until recently, I was convinced that the only 240 that felt right in my hand was my Carter suji, which I often use "as a gyuto". The tip always felt almost unusable on the 240s I tried before, with the exception of another Misono I own. However, even that didn't feel as natural as my 210 and multiple petty knives. But, what made me see the light was a combination of a 225 Mike Davis gyuto, and a Masamoto KS I traded for on a whim. Both of these knives felt/feel "right" to me. The tip is where I want it, and they quite literally feel/felt like much smaller knives (in hand), but in use, they haven't didn't leave me looking for a bit more edge length. I was amazed to learn my 240 KS is in fact a 250mm blade. It still feels small to me, but in a good way. What I'm getting at is, these knives have that perfect balance of geometry and weight distribution that I LIKE, PERSONALLY.

I think a 210 has a better chance of feeling right in the hand, and that's why many people start with them, or favor them, until they inevitably go looking for an excuse to buy a new knife and realize that a longer knife can feel just as good (and sometimes better). Again, this isn't always the case. I've used 240s that have the feel of an axe, in hand, and they were quickly sent on to someone else. Hopefully someone who likes a knife that feels the way they do.

If I had to choose one gyuto, I guess I'd go with a 240, but only one that felt right. With that being said, I'd put my 210 in the "210 suji category", just to get around the limitations I set upon myself. In other words, a huge part of this whole hobby is finding a new knife and deciding if it's the one for you. If not, sell it or keep it for different tasks and try a new one.
 
I like 270 myself. Most of the guys I work with coming out of school are terrified of my 270s, especially the girls. I think one of the reasons is weight. When I let them borrow one they quickly see the my 270 Suisin INOX honyaki is much lighter then their 8" Mercer. They are really shocked. But still scared and want a smaller knife. I should pull out my 300mm Ashi for them!

All in all in depends on what feels right in your hand, there is no "right" length.

-AJ
 
I like 270 myself. Most of the guys I work with coming out of school are terrified of my 270s, especially the girls. I think one of the reasons is weight. When I let them borrow one they quickly see the my 270 Suisin INOX honyaki is much lighter then their 8" Mercer. They are really shocked. But still scared and want a smaller knife. I should pull out my 300mm Ashi for them!

All in all in depends on what feels right in your hand, there is no "right" length.

-AJ


Another thing I have to bear in mind is that my girlfriend will probably end up using whatever I buy. She could probably cope with a 240mm, but any larger I think might freak her out.

I might go have a look in one of the Japanese Knife Company shops in London and see what difference feels like.

Currently wondering whether I want to up the budget and consider following alongside a Carbonext...:

1. Hattori HD
2. TJ Aogami Super
3. Masamoto VG
 
i would probably only use 270mms if it wasnt for the weight of some of them. i usually like my gyutos to weigh in the 190-250 grams. some 270mms get close to 300grams, which i find to be too heavy for my taste.
 
Another thing I have to bear in mind is that my girlfriend will probably end up using whatever I buy. She could probably cope with a 240mm, but any larger I think might freak her out.

I might go have a look in one of the Japanese Knife Company shops in London and see what difference feels like.

I think this makes perfect sense! After a few uses, most will feel smaller in hand than they do initially, but you will be able to shop with more confidence.
 
Of those three I'd go for the Hiromoto.
Whereabouts in the UK are you?
 
Of those three I'd go for the Hiromoto.
Whereabouts in the UK are you?

Hi TB.

Well at the moment it is looking like a final round between the Hiromoto and the Carbonext. I kind of have a decision in my mind, then I read some comments on a thread or other and the decision changes.... I think the bottom line is that whatever I get is going to be very nice compared to what I have been used to, even though I am getting the impression that I may have a better than average euro knife in my old SS Sabatier.

I am in London. Specifically, N1.
 
UPDATE:

I just showed a picture of a nicely edge patinated Hiro AS to my partner, and she said "it's horrible it looks dirty"

So I guess the pendulum has sung back to the Carbonext, for the moment.

FWIW, this is the picture, that a user was selling on a different forum a few years back. I think it is rather beautiful....

82439490np1.jpg
 
patina aint dirty to me. it's purty to me as well. it's just a matter of knowing what it is and taste. anyone who knows knives knows that it's not dirty. i always just smirk at folks that look at my carbons and call them cruddy ugly things.

i remember my chef instructor scolding me on my carbon shears that i used to cut fish fins and guess what? it disappeared the same day i used it. someone knew about my shears being awesome and it magically went away. I wonder why. =D
 
Pictures of the Hiromoto often show etched patina: much darker than with normal use. AS is not very reactive. Would the patina be a problem: baking soda will stabilize the process and the core will turn mat light grey - about as the entire Carbonext, by the way.
 
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