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Yet another "what gyuto should I buy" thread ;-) - Page 2
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Thread: Yet another "what gyuto should I buy" thread ;-)

  1. #11
    Senior Member Benuser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labor of love View Post
    so many choices at JCK...if i were you id get either a hiromoto AS, JCK carbonext or Misono swedish carbon.
    +1
    all are both an excellent introduction and great knives.

  2. #12
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    So far, you guys have recommended the following knives from JCK :

    - Hiromoto AS
    - JCK carbonext
    - Misono swedish carbon

    I don't mind of the extra care that carbon would require, and I don't really mine about the knives handles (wa vs. western). I don't care about the look of the knives either.

    Which of these knives would perform better, overall, in your opinion? I read great comments about the Hiromoto KS and I must admit that I like its look (even though I don't want to consider this aspect in my decision).

  3. #13
    Senior Member eaglerock's Avatar
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    Misono swedish carbon
    Misono swedish carbon
    Misono swedish carbon
    Misono swedish carbon

  4. #14
    Senior Member Benuser's Avatar
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    About the comparison between the Carbonext and Hiromoto AS:
    http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/sh...666#post176666

    The Misono is a very different animal: excellent F&F, by far the best finished handle, a beautiful polished, very convexed edge. Steel is very, very reactive, you will have to force a patina prior to the first use, and to repeat it from time to time. It feels light, nimble, has some flex. Quite a personality. Edge retention is average. Sharpening is not just easy: it's remarkably fast as well.
    The Hiromoto is another personality. Feels stiff and solid, but with a crazy, aggressive edge due to the AS core. Excellent edge retention. Easy sharpening, but requiring permanent thinning.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bef View Post
    Hi,

    I'm getting interested in Japanese knives and I'm looking to buy my first Gyuto, 240mm. I would like to have the feedback of the forums members regarding what I should consider buying.

    Here's what I use my knives for, most of the time :
    - Vegetables (pepper, onions, tomatoes, raw potatoes, cauliflower, etc.)
    - Raw meat (without bones)
    - Fruits (apples, oranges, lemon)
    - Ginger and garlic

    Some other information:
    - I already own some high-end German knives, so I can still use these for cutting things that would need a solid blade
    - I don't really care about a knife being stainless or not
    - I don't care about the look - but I do care for performance!
    - I can't figure out if I prefer "wa" style or not. I'm pretty sure that I could live with any of them
    - I've never sharpened a Japanese knife, but I will buy some stones and a DVD and learn how to do it

    I'm the kind of guy who will invest in high quality equipment and use it for very long. I know that if I don't buy the best that I can afford right away, then I will regret it and replace it a few years later... So I'd like to get the best that I can afford in order to never look back - I'd like to use those knives for decades without replacing them.

    Since I live in Canada, I found that the best place to shop would be on JCK. So I would like to focus on their products.

    For now, the Hattori FH series look interesting, but the Masamoto KS look very good as well.

    I'd like to get your opinion about which products I should consider, in your opinion.

    Thanks!
    I know you're focusing on JCK because of price, shipping, etc., but one thing stands out to me here and that's you've never sharpened a Japanese knife before. For that reason alone, I would look for a knife that comes with a good edge out of the box or buy one that's already been pre-sharpened. If you get a knife new that's not sharp, you may not really enjoy it or understand how good it can be.

    Second, again, because you've never sharpened a knife before, I would stay away from knives that will require constant maintenance and thinning if you're going to use your knives often. I've owned a Hiromoto and, while it can take a very, very sharp edge, I, like a few others, did not have very good edge retention. It's also very close IMHO to German knives in many ways - thickness, heft, feel - than other Japanese knives. Its geometry is nothing special; if you want to get the maximum performance out of a Hiromoto, it will likely take some work.

    Since you're someone who'd rather buy something good now and use it for a long time, it sounds like you're someone who would rather pay a little more up front, than have to pay more on the back end. Buying a knife that's cheaper now - which seems like why you're looking at JCK - doesn't seem to really fit what you've said. Remember, Koki is in Japan - while he provides excellent service as far as purchases and returns go, do you want to have to deal with an international return if you're not happy with it? For these reasons, especially because you're a first time buyer, I think you're much better off buying something closer to home, e.g. U.S. or Canada, so you can have access to customer service. (FWIW, I've never purchased anything from JCK, but given my negative experiences with other vendors and difficulty trying to communicate with Japanese vendors to purchase knives, as well as having read and talked to others about issues purchasing items unseen internationally, I'm rather glad that I did not buy stuff unseen internationally when I started.)

    If you care most about price, JCK is hard to beat. If you care about performance and service, I would consider looking at other knives and vendors rather than exclusively focusing on JCK.
    Michael
    "Don't you know who he is?"

  6. #16
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    It looks like you have a great knowledge about the JCK knives.

    Do you have some experience with the Masamoto KS as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benuser View Post
    About the comparison between the Carbonext and Hiromoto AS:
    http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/sh...666#post176666

    The Misono is a very different animal: excellent F&F, by far the best finished handle, a beautiful polished, very convexed edge. Steel is very, very reactive, you will have to force a patina prior to the first use, and to repeat it from time to time. It feels light, nimble, has some flex. Quite a personality. Edge retention is average. Sharpening is not just easy: it's remarkably fast as well.
    The Hiromoto is another personality. Feels stiff and solid, but with a crazy, aggressive edge due to the AS core. Excellent edge retention. Easy sharpening, but requiring permanent thinning.

  7. #17
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    Thanks Michael. I appreciate your post.

    Actually, buying from JCK has a few advantages, and one of them is customs and duties - it looks like they're not collected in Canada. But I also was able to communicate with them in the last days, and I appreciate their service and knowledge... Shipping from Japan to Canada is as fast as from USA, and I often order things from foreign countries...

    **** looks interesting as well, but they don't ship to Canada... And I can't find much canadian sites that have lots of Japanese knives.

    That being said, there is a place near where I live that is specialized in Japanese knives sharpening, so if I buy a product that's not perfect out of the box, I might go there to have it sharpened for the 1st time.

    Do you have an opinion about the Masamoto KS line?

  8. #18
    Senior Member ThEoRy's Avatar
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    Where in Canada are you?
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bef View Post
    Thanks Michael. I appreciate your post.

    Actually, buying from JCK has a few advantages, and one of them is customs and duties - it looks like they're not collected in Canada. But I also was able to communicate with them in the last days, and I appreciate their service and knowledge... Shipping from Japan to Canada is as fast as from USA, and I often order things from foreign countries...

    **** looks interesting as well, but they don't ship to Canada... And I can't find much canadian sites that have lots of Japanese knives.

    That being said, there is a place near where I live that is specialized in Japanese knives sharpening, so if I buy a product that's not perfect out of the box, I might go there to have it sharpened for the 1st time.

    Do you have an opinion about the Masamoto KS line?
    I do not have any experience with the Masamoto KS line but I have looked at the KS gyuto and yanagiba. I was previously interested in the KS gyuto but, having read the various threads about quality issues with the KS gyutos, including ones from JCK, I passed. I recommend doing some research about the quality issues about the KS gyutos.

    Please know that not every knife is made correctly. Thus, what you consider "not perfect out of the box" as far as sharpness is concerned, may be the least of your problems. When I first started getting into knives, I had no idea of how to quality check the knives I got. And, the second knife I purchased - a rather expensive one - had issues. These issues, such as overgrinds, poor handle installation, bends, improper heat treatment, may not be obvious at first blush, but they can all be problems down the road. By that time, you may not be able to return the knife or get a refund.

    These are reasons why I generally stick with vendors here. Vendors here are responsible to the members.

    Unfortunately, the only vendors here that sell knives in your price range are Japanese Knife Imports (a vendor here who ships to Canada), and, possibly, Marko Tsourkan if he has any practice knives still left for sale. Nonetheless, absolutely recommend contacting Jon because he has a large selection of knives and, if you're interested in Marko's knives, contacting Marko. Jon personally inspected everything that I've bought from him and always tells me to contact him if I have any problems. I haven't.

    (Likewise, Dave Martell personally worked with me on various aspects of the knife I bought from him. I know many members that have been extremely happy with the knives they've gotten from vendors here such as Marko Tsourkan, Bill Burke, Devin Thomas, etc., and the stories of these makers going out of their way to make the members happy are numerous.)

    Again, I have only read of a few issues of members buying knives from JCK (unfortunately, a number of them involve the fit and finish of KS gyutos). But, as someone who had to navigate my way through all of this information when there were fewer vendors out there, I'm glad there are more (and better) places to purchase from now.
    Michael
    "Don't you know who he is?"

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThEoRy View Post
    Where in Canada are you?
    Montreal. There is a very well known guy selling Japanese knives here (L'Émouleur), but from what I've been told, their prices are quite high (although I didn't actually check myself)...

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