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Thread: Modern Steel equivalent to Japanese Tamahagane

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    my understanding is that they tested many types of steel from various makes and found this one to have properties most like what they were looking for. Both Iwasaki-san and his father are/were extremely well educated in metallurgy. I believe both studied at Tokyo University as well.

    Actually, Sara and I just finished reading a book written by the elder Iwasaki-san on sharpening... to say that guy knew a lot is a complete understatement
    which book the one for razors?

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mainaman View Post
    which book the one for razors?
    that one and some notes he sent along with the book

  3. #13
    Delbert Ealy's Avatar
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    Shimmer,
    I don't know where you got the stats for your tamahagane, but the number that surprised me was the Si, for true tamahagane it should be much higher.
    The biggest problem with comparing modern steels is the manganese content, manganese is added to keep the sulfur content low in the refining process and there is always some of it still remaining in the steel. You have a lot of numbers listed above, but most of them are trace and don't count for much, the Mn does make a huge difference. I think if you look at 1095 you will find it close in stats to the steel you listed

    Just to let you know I have made tamahagane and am quite familiar with its properties.


    1095
    C .1.04 Mn .30 P .025 max S .050 max Si .15

    Laminated metals specialist, Kitchen knife and gadget maker
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    Actually, Sara and I just finished reading a book written by the elder Iwasaki-san on sharpening... to say that guy knew a lot is a complete understatement
    Sounds like it needs to be translated to English.

  5. #15
    Delbert, I'm glad you've made tamahagane, and I'm glad more American's are playing around with it. I am not under the illusion - as I think some people are - that there is anything uber-special about tamahagane compared to a lot of modern steels, but I love that "from scratch" idea of a tamahagane blade. As I said in a previous post, traditionally in the huge tataras that are used to produce tamahagane in Japan the final steel ore has a wide range of composition, etc. Most of the American makers I have seen make it in a much smaller furnace, and I was wondering if you've had better luck in controlling the smelting process to get something a little more uniform in consistency?

  6. #16
    Delbert Ealy's Avatar
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    Joe,
    I have had luck when I get anything at all, its not easy, although it is fun.

    Laminated metals specialist, Kitchen knife and gadget maker
    www.ealyknives.com
    www.mokume-jewelry.net
    "Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life"

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by iceman01 View Post
    Sounds like it needs to be translated to English.
    we just finished our own translation... i'm editing it right now

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Delbert Ealy View Post
    Shimmer,
    I don't know where you got the stats for your tamahagane, but the number that surprised me was the Si, for true tamahagane it should be much higher.
    The biggest problem with comparing modern steels is the manganese content, manganese is added to keep the sulfur content low in the refining process and there is always some of it still remaining in the steel. You have a lot of numbers listed above, but most of them are trace and don't count for much, the Mn does make a huge difference. I think if you look at 1095 you will find it close in stats to the steel you listed

    Just to let you know I have made tamahagane and am quite familiar with its properties.


    1095
    C .1.04 Mn .30 P .025 max S .050 max Si .15
    These articles are a good starting point.

    http://www.yamakawadojo.com/Tamahaga...0of%20Slag.pdf

    http://www.shibuiswords.com/tatsuoinoue.htm

    I have a dozen other sources which all state the same general composition of this steel.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndoughy View Post
    I guess what I meant was that the fantastic qualities exhibited by tamahagane blades are really showing off the skill of the person handling, heat treating, and otherwise making the blade. It's like trying to find paint with similar chemical composition to the paint Michelangelo used.
    Excellent parallel! And as far as what most closely relates to tamahagane, which tamahagane?
    Spike C
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  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    we just finished our own translation... i'm editing it right now
    Excellent Jon, I'm really curious.

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