Masamoto HC vs Sweden Series

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rdm_magic

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I'm in the market for a new 240mm gyuto, after selling my 210mm. Budget is around 200$. Thinking I want a carbon yo handle, because thats what I'm familiar with, but I'm open to wa handles too.
At the moment I've narrowed it down to either a Masamoto HC or a Misono dragon. Again, if there are 'better' options in this price range I'm open to them. I am in the UK though, so something from Koki is best due to his shipping. I'm not sure what Jons like on international shipping, but I can't really justify the 40$+ that some sites charge for postage.

I don't want anything too thin (currently using a Sabatier 10 inch nogent and I'm happy with the thickness of that, no fatter but a little thinner is okay), I'm a leftie too.

Out of the two that I'm considering, which is subjectively better, and what are the advantages/dis of each? Are there any other options that I should give serious consideration to?
 
The masahiro virgin carbon gyuto is a nice blade for the money as well.
 
You can call and ask Jon what shipping would be to the uk. I just bought a Suien 240 gyuto from him and am very happy with it. Thin enough to cut well, but feels sturdy enough to handle whatever you'd throw at it. Not sure what the steel is (I've read speculation it's V2), but it's very unreactive so far and had a very useable profile, mostly flat with just enough curve to be versatile. It's worth a look, especially since its $70 less than the HC and $40 less than the Misono.
 
I owned the HC and I can say from first hand experience that the steel is good, but so is the steel in the Sweden and I prefer the profile of the Sweden.
 
Should also add that the HC fit and finish on the handle was mediocre but I've heard only good things about misono f&f.
 
A few years ago I did some research about the same question and found that with the Masamoto the fluctuations in F&F were huge. You really had to pick out a good one and even than, accept some minor issues. To me that was unacceptable with a knife at that price level. I'm not sure if Masamoto have changed QC since.
The Swedish Carbon is strongly right biased. The 70/30 statement by Koki is far too optimistic from your point of view. The right face is strongly convexed, much more than with a Carbonext. I guess with putting a neutral edge on the CN and thinning the left side a little you were fine with it. This is not the case with the Swedish. The convexity is much more pronounced. Expect a vast operation with uncertain results.
If you've owned a Carbonext you should know how it performs and can easily be changed into a leftie. Why not just ordering a 240 Carbonext??
 
Sorry, I missed the fact that you're a lefty until Benuser mentioned it. The Suien I recommended above is very strongly righty biased as well.
 
i too am interested in the misono swedish steel gyuto, would love to try a dragon. also a lefty. but oh well.
 
A few years ago I did some research about the same question and found that with the Masamoto the fluctuations in F&F were huge. You really had to pick out a good one and even than, accept some minor issues. To me that was unacceptable with a knife at that price level. I'm not sure if Masamoto have changed QC since.
The Swedish Carbon is strongly right biased. The 70/30 statement by Koki is far too optimistic from your point of view. The right face is strongly convexed, much more than with a Carbonext. I guess with putting a neutral edge on the CN and thinning the left side a little you were fine with it. This is not the case with the Swedish. The convexity is much more pronounced. Expect a vast operation with uncertain results.
If you've owned a Carbonext you should know how it performs and can easily be changed into a leftie. Why not just ordering a 240 Carbonext??


On the one hand I have considered the CN, and I know I would be happy with it. But, on the other, when there are so many knives it would seem silly to get something which I've already owned..
 
Just buy a Dragon and convex the left side a bit. It's not that drastic, really.
 
Just buy a Dragon and convex the left side a bit. It's not that drastic, really.

+1 I've got a 240 swedish gyuto, well had one. Still waiting to get it back from dave with a new dress ;-) and also lefty and had no problems using it. Worked fine for me with no steering or drastic sticking issues.
 
Dear lefties, please explain. You want to recenter the edge and convex the left side. So far so good. But shouldn't you as well flatten the right side to reduce its convexity?? Otherwise, with a recentered edge, you would have two convexed, almost symmetric faces, which would cause huge wedging IMHO. What am I missing??
 
Is the SS better than the Masamoto then? What about other options in the price range?

What would be subjectively the best knife I can get that I can use as an all purpose knife?
 
If you were willing to stretch the budget a bit, the Kochi is a great performer.
 
I can stretch my budget, I have savings that I can spend if I want. The thing is that I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to fully appreciate buying a wisely chosen 500$ knife over something that costs me 200$, as I'm not sure if I'm enough of a sharpener to bring out its potential, knife skills aren't great enough to full bring out its potential. But then maybe I should just get *the* knife so that I don't need to buy one as my skills + ability do improve. I'm quite torn over it.
 
im also a lefty and i enjoyed my misono swed gyuto. the masamoto hc isnt nearly as a good a knife and is quite overpriced. theres lots of praise on some forums about the masamoto hc but i think most of the praise was written 5-7 years ago. i think better options are available now.
 
The thing is that I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to fully appreciate buying a wisely chosen 500$ knife over something that costs me 200$, as I'm not sure if I'm enough of a sharpener to bring out its potential, knife skills aren't great enough to full bring out its potential. But then maybe I should just get *the* knife so that I don't need to buy one as my skills + ability do improve.

The Kochi is currently out of stock, but runs less than $300. As to sharpening, it is a fairly easy knife to keep up, as to skills I think a good knife can help with skills as it allows you to focus on technique rather than worrying about forcing a cut. I keep buying 'the knife' and trading it for another:biggrin: Nice though that you can recover most of your money when you resell and then try something else. I think you really need to find one that the profile fits your technique and that feels good in hand (balance, weight, length), the benefit to trying a bunch of knives is that you can really fine tune what you are looking for--the more you try, the more you learn what you like.
:2cents:
Cheers
 
im also a lefty and i enjoyed my misono swed gyuto. the masamoto hc isnt nearly as a good a knife and is quite overpriced. theres lots of praise on some forums about the masamoto hc but i think most of the praise was written 5-7 years ago. i think better options are available now.

I owned the HC and its strength was absolutely its steel. Very unreactive, great edge retention and sharpened up very easily.
 
I owned the HC and its strength was absolutely its steel. Very unreactive, great edge retention and sharpened up very easily.

But I didn't like its profile. I'm actually thinking about picking up a swede primarily because its one of the few western handled gyutos that has the Sab/KS profile that I love and will only have.
 
i own the HC now bought it from another user on here. I wanna try out the dragon as well.
 
I've toyed with selling mine (even though it's one of my true prizes...I know I'd regret it, though).
 
as was posted on that thread about the aritsugu A type, you'll have to do a lot of work to completely work for a lefty.

but i have a couple righty knives in western handles that work okay for me. ingredients sticking to the left side of the knife is annoying since it's practically completely flat. but as most things for lefties, it's something you just gotta get used to in a world where the japanese make knives really for righties and lefties have it bad and just get "adjusted" righty blades so they work a little better for us.

not a lot of 50/50 grind j knives out there so....you know how it is.

if you really want a better performing knife that's friendly for both righties and lefties that you don't have to really work on, look for 50/50 grind blades that's around $250 mark and up. or if you really want a lefty knife, you'll just have to get a custom and pay extra for the custom work.

i'm already saving up for custom lefty knives. nothing too expensive as i am, well, financially challenged and living in a 3rd world country..... i'm looking into wa handled knives these days to try them out. as i've already contacted a couple j knife makers online, it takes about 30-90 days to get a custom knife. but those are smaller and lesser known knife makers. you might wanna do the same, having a custom. easier for you that way. easier to maintain, less thinking about getting a better performing knife and overthinking sharpening angles and such.

such is our pain of being a lefty in a righty world. lol. i'm so bitter. it sucks so bad that i really started out earlier in life as a right handed person but ended up becoming left handed coz i pretty much forgot how to use my right hand for writing and other stuff. i tried using my right hand for cutting with knives, and it turns out i have quite a bit of carpal tunnel syndrome on it from decades of using a mouse and keyboard. so.... i'm stuck with using my left for knives. lol. i guess you can say i'm a bit ambidextrous. i can use a gun with either hand, dribble a ball, use a mouse, but can't write or cut with my right even if my life depended on it.

sorry just sourgraping here. lol.
 
one last thing, when you get to wanna have like a honesuki, a deba, a hankotsu and other more asymmetric knives.... you'll really end up getting either a custom one or a specially ordered left handed version. so i'd like to think you'd get what you really want when you order one that's really fit for your needs.

it'll "pay" in the end, paying extra for what you want.

=D


unless you like giving yourself a hard time. i know i do. lol. i'm a bit of a masochist that way.
 
Yup, I have a KS. :) It's damned good, and has definitely made the Dragon redundant. However, the Dragon has also made the KS redundant, depending on my mood. How many gyutos does a guy really need? Haha
 
as was posted on that thread about the aritsugu A type, you'll have to do a lot of work to completely work for a lefty.

but i have a couple righty knives in western handles that work okay for me. ingredients sticking to the left side of the knife is annoying since it's practically completely flat. but as most things for lefties, it's something you just gotta get used to in a world where the japanese make knives really for righties and lefties have it bad and just get "adjusted" righty blades so they work a little better for us.

not a lot of 50/50 grind j knives out there so....you know how it is.

if you really want a better performing knife that's friendly for both righties and lefties that you don't have to really work on, look for 50/50 grind blades that's around $250 mark and up. or if you really want a lefty knife, you'll just have to get a custom and pay extra for the custom work.

i'm already saving up for custom lefty knives. nothing too expensive as i am, well, financially challenged and living in a 3rd world country..... i'm looking into wa handled knives these days to try them out. as i've already contacted a couple j knife makers online, it takes about 30-90 days to get a custom knife. but those are smaller and lesser known knife makers. you might wanna do the same, having a custom. easier for you that way. easier to maintain, less thinking about getting a better performing knife and overthinking sharpening angles and such.

such is our pain of being a lefty in a righty world. lol. i'm so bitter. it sucks so bad that i really started out earlier in life as a right handed person but ended up becoming left handed coz i pretty much forgot how to use my right hand for writing and other stuff. i tried using my right hand for cutting with knives, and it turns out i have quite a bit of carpal tunnel syndrome on it from decades of using a mouse and keyboard. so.... i'm stuck with using my left for knives. lol. i guess you can say i'm a bit ambidextrous. i can use a gun with either hand, dribble a ball, use a mouse, but can't write or cut with my right even if my life depended on it.

sorry just sourgraping here. lol.

What customs are you looking at? Price range? I'm not against getting a custom, but the price and relative ignorance of which to get stop me.
+1 for using the mouse as a leftie too, I use a knife and fork the right handed way too. No chance I could write or cut anything with my right though
 

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