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Thread: Misconception about Kitchen Knives

  1. #41
    Senior Member mpukas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajhuff View Post
    Well what can I say..

    -AJ
    I think there's a misconception between your professional use of the term stamped and the way it's used here in this context of kitchen knives. We use the term stamped loosely to refer to a knife where the pattern has be somehow cut from either a sheet of metal or bar stock. That method could be stamped with a press and a pattern, or a pattern could be traced and then cut with an angle grinder, or laser or water jet cut.

    Furthermore, stamped is not accurate to describe mono-steel knives (I suppose there are pre-fab clad metal sheets - I think Carter uses them for his SS knives, among others) that are not hand forged because there are some makers that hand forge the blank, and then put it in a press with a pattern, and stamp the final shape.

    Our little bubble is filled with many misused words. Stamped is going to generally refer to mono-steel steel knives that are fabricated from sheet or bar stock metal, using a press or a cutting method to create a pre-determined pattern, and then ground or milled to finished geometry. Accuracy be damned!

    I find no truth what so ever that a forged knife is better in any way, shape, or form than a stamped and ground knife. Just as much care, expertise and skill goes into creating a knife from bar stock as does from forging – perhaps less steps. Nothing drives me more nuts that someone who is very skilled in a certain craft and a particular way of doing something, but the end result has some quirky features that the maker may be adamant about, but actually are not providing anything beneficial to the final product (Jon can relate tho this ).
    Shibui - simplicity devoid of unnecessary elements

  2. #42

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    Ahhh.... Sorry I did not know that knife nuts had redefined stamping. This is a good example of stamping:


    And it what I was referring to. This is how your mass market knives at superstores are made.

    -AJ

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Tsourkan View Post
    We are not talking here in absolute terms, are we? When you have a handle with components (one piece construction vs scales) that will not separate and create gaps and the handle from inside is filled with epoxy that can move with the movement of the wood without cracking, in my world that would be a pretty sealed handle. The joint between the handle and bolster are sealed with epoxy.
    I totally agree but why not use same epoxy to connect wood and metal on scales-type handle?
    So maybe safer to say that both types mishandled or sloppily made - like some WA handles straight from Japan with big holes between wood and ferrule... Or like Wictorinox type scales where in new knife they already
    will not be hygienic.

    But both properly made might be safe.
    Could that be acceptable way to put it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Tsourkan View Post
    On microscopic level there always will be voids and gaps for bacteria to hide, so if that what you mean by impossibility of bacteria-free environment, I would have to agree with you.

    M
    That is exactly what I meant. When people talk bacteria, they see those big monsters from TVcommercial tat are swimming in your toilet, or this sludge that forms in the gaps on the handle.
    But I would prefer to say that without a brush and a bleach after evvery use, you will never eliminate cotamination given the real size of a bacteria unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Tsourkan View Post
    By the way, you would have to sterilize your knife with a metal handle for it to be completely bacteria-free.

    M
    Yes, by using chlorine solution for example but I find no point in doing so. Good scrub is the way for me. Thats why my wooden handles look bad and thats why I am not fond of precious woods, when I scrub them 20x a day.

  4. #44
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    I was under the impression that good steel is stamped out before heat treatment,the steel is in a whole diff. ballpark after treatment,this goes for quality carbon & quality stain resistant steels.

    I've bought some less expensive forged carbon blades,had to fill in tang bolster area wt. Epoxy Resin.Other fit & finish issues,no big deal as long as the steel is good.

    Bolsters are overrated,Used rosewood handle Forchner's in kitchens,before I switched to J-Carbon Gyuto's.The scales do get bacteria & gaps after much use.The Fibrox handles are cheaper & more sanitary.

    We had classes in food safety.Hotel spent some bucks for that,were even using color coded plastic cutting boards.

  5. #45
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    i'm with salty here.

  6. #46
    One misconception I often see/hear is about the importance of "balance."

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    When people talk bacteria, they see those big monsters from TVcommercial tat are swimming in your toilet
    OFF TOPIC: i recently saw on TV that bacteria contamination on our beloved smartphone touchscreens exceeds by far bacteria contamination on public (!) toilet seats...

    i agree that i expect, as a customer, a high level of hygiene in a professional kitchen. but i am not sure if the knife handle makes that much of a difference. but i don't know much about it...

    btw, during a recent visit to a high class restaurant in austria i had the chance to take a look into the kitchen through a window on the way to the restrooms. while that improves customers' confidence and trust (it gives you the impression that there's nothing to hide), one of the things you definitely do not want to see is a sweating and overweight cook/assistant digging a spoon into the pot, shoving the whole spoon into his mouth, and then digging again into the very same pot and placing the food on the plates for the customers... i watched closely for 2 or 3 minutes, and while i can understand that he was hungry at 11 pm, this is not what i want to see...

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ajhuff View Post
    Ahhh.... Sorry I did not know that knife nuts had redefined stamping. This is a good example of stamping:


    And it what I was referring to. This is how your mass market knives at superstores are made.

    -AJ
    What I was getting at before was, couldn't this process be done with 1095? How is this stamping any different from what Japanese makers use when they cut out their profiles with a hydraulic press, besides number?

    Not trying to poke too hard, but I wasn't aware about specific deep drawing steels being used for mass stamping, and if it can only be done with those steels. I like thinking about production methods, so I'm curious.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by toddnmd View Post
    One misconception I often see/hear is about the importance of "balance."
    I personally think balance, which, to me, is the weight distribution between the blade and the handle, is extremely important. A well balanced knife is easier to control, which makes it easier to do delicate or precise cuts, and also results in less overall hand fatigue.

    Personally, I don't think enough importance is placed on balance.
    Michael
    "Don't you know who he is?"

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhlee View Post
    I personally think balance, which, to me, is the weight distribution between the blade and the handle, is extremely important. A well balanced knife is easier to control, which makes it easier to do delicate or precise cuts, and also results in less overall hand fatigue.

    Personally, I don't think enough importance is placed on balance.
    What I've learned about balance is that people think there is only one correct way to balance a knife. But much depends on the way the knife was intended to be used and the personal style of the user. I used to think that the balance point should be exactly at the place where your thumb-tip falls in a pinch grip...and that is a great balance point for many purposes...but if you want to do chopping/pushcutting, it's better for the balance to move forward a bit.

    I don't have much experience with it, but I imagine that for a boning knife, you might want the balance a bit farther back...maybe also true for smaller pettys and parers as those are also for "in hand" work.

    Remember: You're a unique individual...just like everybody else.

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