Misconception about Kitchen Knives

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Marko Tsourkan

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Here are two that come to mind:

Full tang knife with riveted handle is better than a hidden tang knife.
I think a hidden tang knife makes more sense for a kitchen knife (unless we are talking production knives with plastic scales), because even stabilized wood will move over time, and separation between a tang and scales will accumulate stuff (food particles, moisture, bacteria), making it less hygienic and if a knife is in carbon steel, you will start seeing rust forming just under the exposed edges.


Knives with forged bolsters are better than knives without

I am not sure I would agree with that either. When a knife is left at a good thickness of 3-3.5mm at the handle, it's as sturdy as it gets, with a bolster or without, so I see a bolster more for as cosmetic and hygienic reasons, and to a degree for a balance, than for anythings else.

What else?
 
I think the basic misconception about kitchen knives among the general public is that you need a whole slew of different knives for different tasks. If you look at some of the sets of knives by brands like Shun they probably have a dozen or more types of knives. They even have a panini knife. In reality you can get by with a good paring knife, a good chef knife and a good slicer.
 
Now that you mentioned a misconception that people need specialized knives, I quite often hear people need a separate knife to cut tomatoes. Not to peal potatoes, or to carve ham, but to cut tomatoes. Always makes me wonder about the other knives people have.
 
For me they are better cause the soul and passion of the knife maker.

Find no interest or romantism in stamping anything, just like stamping lids on ready-made meals.
But I dont mean it makes the knife better performer or better i any measurable manner.:angel2:

Apart from that many people honestly think they can chop bones or open cans with knife cause "steel is tough isnt it" ?
 
Heft is good and necessary. I had that misconception until I was enlightened. My first good knife was a small Carter, and my first impression before I cut with it was "wow, this thing feels flimsy". I was even thinking of asking Carter to make me a heavier knife similar in heft to my Henckels. Glad that request never went out!
 
Forged are better than stamped/stock removed.

Forged knives ARE better than stamped knives.
Stock removed knives ARE better than stamped knives.

Some forged knives are better than stock removed knives.
Some stock removal knives are better than forged knives.

-AJ
 
Forged knives ARE better than stamped knives.
Stock removed knives ARE better than stamped knives.

Some forged knives are better than stock removed knives.
Some stock removal knives are better than forged knives.

-AJ

Really? How so? Weren't the sheets of steel forged initially?
 
Forged knives ARE better than stamped knives.
Stock removed knives ARE better than stamped knives.

-AJ

As a person who loves hand forged knives, this simply isn't true in any measurable, objective sense.

Most Japanese knives that many here love and own are stamped then machine ground and they are excellent performers.
 
The same handle design that works on a hunter or bowie works on a kitchen knife...........(not). :knife:
 
I feel kind of in same way :) Good food comparison
It is like ready made meals, some of them taste good

But even bad homemade meal is better then read-made
Just my :2cents:

For me they are better cause the soul and passion of the knife maker.

Find no interest or romantism in stamping anything, just like stamping lids on ready-made meals.
But I dont mean it makes the knife better performer or better i any measurable manner.:angel2:

Apart from that many people honestly think they can chop bones or open cans with knife cause "steel is tough isnt it" ?
 
Funny, this is the second time I have seen the hygenic argument raised for full tangs this week and I think stating full tang knives as less hygenic is a complete hyperbole and misrepresentation. Hygenic issues arise from poor sanitation issues period, regardless of the tools used. From cutting boards to misc kitchen tools etc...a fraction of a gap, whether in full tang or hidden tang (I have seen many hidden tangs with gaps) is not going to present issues with regular cleaning. I have numerous 100 year old full tang knives that still see frequent use.

I am not siding for one or the other, I love hidden tang westerns, but the hygenic argument is not valid.
 
Funny, this is the second time I have seen the hygenic argument raised for full tangs this week and I think stating full tang knives as less hygenic is a complete hyperbole and misrepresentation. Hygenic issues arise from poor sanitation issues period, regardless of the tools used. From cutting boards to misc kitchen tools etc...a fraction of a gap, whether in full tang or hidden tang (I have seen many hidden tangs with gaps) is not going to present issues with regular cleaning. I have numerous 100 year old full tang knives that still see frequent use.

I am not siding for one or the other, I love hidden tang westerns, but the hygenic argument is not valid.

I see your point.

When a knife handle is completely sealed, with no space for water or bacteria to get in, in my opinion you are going to reduce a chance that some of that stuff might end up on your hands and somehow on the food you prepare. This was an assumption based on reasoning - I didn't base it on anything I have read or heard.

Any old knife with natural wood handle will show some gap between the tang and the scales. On my F. Dick knife is is about .5mm all around. Granted it is an old knife, but still.

M
 
Funny, this is the second time I have seen the hygenic argument raised for full tangs this week and I think stating full tang knives as less hygenic is a complete hyperbole and misrepresentation. Hygenic issues arise from poor sanitation issues period, regardless of the tools used. From cutting boards to misc kitchen tools etc...a fraction of a gap, whether in full tang or hidden tang (I have seen many hidden tangs with gaps) is not going to present issues with regular cleaning. I have numerous 100 year old full tang knives that still see frequent use.

I am not siding for one or the other, I love hidden tang westerns, but the hygenic argument is not valid.

All I know is that the full tang knife I did a lot of squid with didn't really have any visible gaps between tang and scale and was washed regularly, but it still managed to build up some disgusting rotten squid goop under the scales of the handle...
 
Really? How so? Weren't the sheets of steel forged initially?

Metal for stamping is made to be stamped. It's more than it just happens to be thin. The chemistry isn't compatible with being a good knife.

-AJ
 
High Carbon Stainless Steel........ :scratchhead:
 
having spent time looking at various samples under microscope i have to disagree with you on this
 
I actually belief that for people without perfect technique (i.e. someone like me), a thicker German profile knife for rock chopping is a good thing.

I am a home cook so of course I have far more space than a pro would have but I use two knifes when I cook if rock chopping is needed, a gyuto (I have a bunch of gyuto's I love so I switch them around) for slicing and then a German profile (almost always my Messermeister Elite but sometimes some older Wusthof knifes which were my first knifes purchases).

But I suppose the fact that I only bought one German profile knife in 10 years and maybe 20 guyto's says something...)
 
High Carbon Stainless Steel........ :scratchhead:



Steel can be both high carbon and "stainless". ZDP-189 for example contains more than twice as much carbon than white #1 but is stain resistant by virtue of the high (20%) chromium content in the alloy.
 
on the stamped knife vs forged knife... i've spend time not only using, but also inspecting both with knife experts and metalurgists in japan. There are some pretty good stamped and/or stock removal knives being produced now days with heat treatments that easily put them on par with some of the best forged knives i've seen.
 
When a knife handle is completely sealed, with no space for water or bacteria to get in,


That unfortunately is wishful thinking. From my side too cause Im quite concerned about bacteria in the kitchen. Saying totally sealed is like to say bacteria free kitchen.

You would have to have a metal handle on your knife I think. I dont want that.
 
Stamped and stock removal are not the same thing. I'm wondering if perhaps what you guys call stamping is actually something else. I used to melt down 50-100 tons od stampings per day for about 5 years, including knife blanks. I'm pretty familiar with the chemistry. Not saying you're wrong but your observations don't match my observations. :)

-AJ
 
Metal for stamping is made to be stamped. It's more than it just happens to be thin. The chemistry isn't compatible with being a good knife. :laughat:

-AJ

I'm going to say what many people here I'm sure are thinking, and that is, you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Surely makers of high end stock removal knives (e.g. the Sakai layzors) are working with stock which has already been machine forged?.
 
Stamped and stock removal are not the same thing. I'm wondering if perhaps what you guys call stamping is actually something else. I used to melt down 50-100 tons od stampings per day for about 5 years, including knife blanks. I'm pretty familiar with the chemistry. Not saying you're wrong but your observations don't match my observations. :)

-AJ

Please divulge. What is it about their "chemistry" that is bad?
 
Please divulge. What is it about their "chemistry" that is bad?

Stampings usually have very low alloy content, particularly very low Mn content for deep drawing properties. You want a low shear strength to facilitate easy cutting of the sheet.

-AJ
 
That unfortunately is wishful thinking. From my side too cause Im quite concerned about bacteria in the kitchen. Saying totally sealed is like to say bacteria free kitchen.

You would have to have a metal handle on your knife I think. I dont want that.


We are not talking here in absolute terms, are we? When you have a handle with components (one piece construction vs scales) that will not separate and create gaps and the handle from inside is filled with epoxy that can move with the movement of the wood without cracking, in my world that would be a pretty sealed handle. The joint between the handle and bolster are sealed with epoxy.

On microscopic level there always will be voids and gaps for bacteria to hide, so if that what you mean by impossibility of bacteria-free environment, I would have to agree with you.

By the way, you would have to sterilize your knife with a metal handle for it to be completely bacteria-free.

M
 
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