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Thread: What's the limit?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Squilliam View Post
    Dave would you be able to explain how using too many stones would round edges?

    Each movement (when free handing) that we do offers a chance to slip or do less than precise movements that add up to a larger mess.

    When free handing, most of us are kind of sloppy to start with and because of the lack of muscle memory obtained we're slipping and going from about 5 deg to 25 deg on each stroke. Sounds crazy but not that untrue.

    Since many people start with something similar to King 1k (most unfortunately often recommended first stone) as a starter stone then we find ourselves making facets more than we're cutting a new crisp bevel. Our bevels look like a whole bunch of multi-facets vs a clean single facet - this is because we wobble and our stone doesn't cut fast enough. If we stop here at 1k though we might get lucky and still have a coarse enough edge (even if multi-faceted and somewhat rounded) to grab and cut food.

    Should we continue to a finer grit stone then we'll be polishing the multi-faceted edge taking out the bite left from the coarser stone and now the knife won't cut much of anything.

    But this isn't ever good enough for us so we get out the polishing stones to fix this and guess what we do? We make the edge even more slick and rounded.

    The more stones we use the more we wobble and the higher the grit stones we use the more we polish and round the edge.

    I recommend making sure that the first stone used in the series is coarse enough to cut faster than you can make a mess of the edge (from wobbling) and then to only use enough stones to go from this point to get the edge to where you want it. The fewer stones used the better and this is why getting stones that work together, allowing large jumps in grit size, is key.

    Also worth noting is that you want to spend as little time as possible on each stone for all the above reasons and again getting stones that work together helps keep you from screwing things up.

    Here's my tips to success...

    1. Use a coarse enough stone as your first stone to allow cutting of a clean crisp single facet bevel. The stone should cut fast enough to keep your wobble from screwing up and creating the dreaded multi-faceted edge.

    2. Use stones that allow big jumps to where you're looking to go to. If you can jump from 400/500x to 3k then yeah that's great.

    3. Use as few stones as possible - less time on stones equals less wobble. using stones that (again) allow for this helps a lot.

    4. Go no higher than 5k(ish) for double bevels. Singles are different - go as high as you like - maybe the deba would be best left at 3-5k though.

  2. #12
    Senior Member ThEoRy's Avatar
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    I think 8k is too high for a gyuto. About 5k then strop on diamond. Chromium is too smooth.
    Starting this harvest I'm a starving startling artist/
    Lyrical arsonist it's arduous spitting this smartest arsenic/

  3. #13
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    as what i have always hear in many things. k.i.s.s., keep it simple stupid.

    =D

  4. #14
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    Great advice...makes alot of sense to me.

  5. #15
    Senior Member cclin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Martell View Post
    ........ Singles are different - go as high as you like - maybe the deba would be best left at 3-5k though.
    Dave, why higher grit better for Singles?? do you mean all ture Single bevels knives: Kiritsuke, Honesuki, Usuba, Yanagi except deba??
    Charles ***[All statements I made here only my personal opinion and nothing more!]*** & Please bare with me for my crappy English!!

  6. #16
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    Yes like Carbon SB yanagi can go higher because you want a polished edge for cutting sashimi & sushi topping.Deba tougher duty so no need high grits.

    Dave what types of strops can you use the diamond spray on?

  7. #17
    Senior Member cclin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithsaltydog View Post
    Yes like Carbon SB yanagi can go higher because you want a polished edge for cutting sashimi & sushi topping.Deba tougher duty so no need high grits.

    Dave what types of strops can you use the diamond spray on?
    yap! how about Kiritsuke, Honesuki, Usuba?? I think they needs tooth edge to cut protein & veg.

    I used bosa wood & felt pad for diamond spray !!
    Charles ***[All statements I made here only my personal opinion and nothing more!]*** & Please bare with me for my crappy English!!

  8. #18
    Yanagiba is what I had in mind when I typed that earlier, I should have clarified that, sorry for the confusion.


    For diamond spray I like leather & felt.

  9. #19
    Senior Member stevenStefano's Avatar
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    I like chromium. I use 0.5 on leather. I have 1.0 diamond spray but I much prefer the chromium, I think it just has much more of an affect and brings dulling edges back much better than the diamond

  10. #20
    Senior Member rdpx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Martell View Post
    Each movement (when free handing) that we do offers a chance to slip or do less than precise movements that add up to a larger mess.

    When free handing, most of us are kind of sloppy to start with and because of the lack of muscle memory obtained we're slipping and going from about 5 deg to 25 deg on each stroke. Sounds crazy but not that untrue.

    Since many people start with something similar to King 1k (most unfortunately often recommended first stone) as a starter stone then we find ourselves making facets more than we're cutting a new crisp bevel. Our bevels look like a whole bunch of multi-facets vs a clean single facet - this is because we wobble and our stone doesn't cut fast enough. If we stop here at 1k though we might get lucky and still have a coarse enough edge (even if multi-faceted and somewhat rounded) to grab and cut food.

    Should we continue to a finer grit stone then we'll be polishing the multi-faceted edge taking out the bite left from the coarser stone and now the knife won't cut much of anything.

    But this isn't ever good enough for us so we get out the polishing stones to fix this and guess what we do? We make the edge even more slick and rounded.

    The more stones we use the more we wobble and the higher the grit stones we use the more we polish and round the edge.

    I recommend making sure that the first stone used in the series is coarse enough to cut faster than you can make a mess of the edge (from wobbling) and then to only use enough stones to go from this point to get the edge to where you want it. The fewer stones used the better and this is why getting stones that work together, allowing large jumps in grit size, is key.

    Also worth noting is that you want to spend as little time as possible on each stone for all the above reasons and again getting stones that work together helps keep you from screwing things up.

    Here's my tips to success...

    1. Use a coarse enough stone as your first stone to allow cutting of a clean crisp single facet bevel. The stone should cut fast enough to keep your wobble from screwing up and creating the dreaded multi-faceted edge.

    2. Use stones that allow big jumps to where you're looking to go to. If you can jump from 400/500x to 3k then yeah that's great.

    3. Use as few stones as possible - less time on stones equals less wobble. using stones that (again) allow for this helps a lot.

    4. Go no higher than 5k(ish) for double bevels. Singles are different - go as high as you like - maybe the deba would be best left at 3-5k though.
    This was very helpful, thanks Dave.

    I have #240/1000/6000 and had been planning to start my first sharpen with the #1000. Maybe I should drop down to the #240?

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