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Thread: Sharp Story

  1. #41
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty dog View Post
    I also noticed it wasn't a "toothy" edge. When slicing a tomato you could tell it was very sharp but there was some reluctance on the knife's part once the skin was pierced. It's hard to describe.
    that's what i would expect. the 20k would do a very good job of applying a very fine, even scratch pattern. in my experience, toothy or glassy edges are determined by time on the stone, the strops just maximize whatever scratch pattern has been applied.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Salty dog View Post
    way
    if your stone releases slurry there is no way it is higher than 6-8k at most

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by mainaman View Post
    if your stone releases slurry there is no way it is higher than 6-8k at most
    that is just not true at all

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    that is just not true at all
    If the stone releases slurry constantly, then how is that slurry broken down? Also we should not even be talking about grit on naturals , we should be talking about soft hard, because that is what determines how fine the stone will act. The harder the stone the less slurry release the more slurry breakdown the finer the edge will be.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Salty dog's Avatar
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    Jon would know. He sold it to me. (I like it BTW)

    Actually, I forgot I used it before stropping. Enough to develop a small amount of mud. Very lightly and then a gentle strop.

    I also used it for the knives I sent TK. I'm still digging my teeth in it.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by mainaman View Post
    If the stone releases slurry constantly, then how is that slurry broken down? Also we should not even be talking about grit on naturals , we should be talking about soft hard, because that is what determines how fine the stone will act. The harder the stone the less slurry release the more slurry breakdown the finer the edge will be.
    to some extent thats true, but also the starting grit of the stone comes into play. Likewise, you can use softer stones that release a lot of slurry with super light pressure and refine grit. I have some a number of softer finishing stones that get finishes better than 8k (some as high as ~15k). Harder stones do refine grit more quickly, but that doesnt mean it cant be done on a softer stone and the starting point does make a big difference.

    Lets take an aoto for example... this is a stone that can release a lot of slurry but still breaks down and gets progressively finer as you go

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    to some extent thats true, but also the starting grit of the stone comes into play. Likewise, you can use softer stones that release a lot of slurry with super light pressure and refine grit. I have some a number of softer finishing stones that get finishes better than 8k (some as high as ~15k). Harder stones do refine grit more quickly, but that doesnt mean it cant be done on a softer stone and the starting point does make a big difference.

    Lets take an aoto for example... this is a stone that can release a lot of slurry but still breaks down and gets progressively finer as you go
    true with light pressure one can get a better refinement. The stones do not have grit levels they are all the same when you start but the ones that are harder will allow for more refinement of the slurry and thus prprovide higher level of finish. If you look at slurry of Jant soft and hard stones have the same size particles when freshly raised. Recently one of the razor guys who lives in Japan posted a nice write up on natural stones that discusses that partf of natural stones.

    http://japanshave.blogspot.com/2011/...-it-going.html

    so what really controls how well a stone will finish is the hardness of the stone

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty dog View Post
    Interesting. I only go up to 10K. Although I just added a Takashima that is up there somewhere. Now I'm trying to figure out what happened between your sharpening and my stropping. You would think 20k and the strops you used would do it but it didn't. (the weight test)

    That would be something for your microscope. I imagine the edge got thinned out ever so slightly. I used seven stropping surfaces. I also noticed it wasn't a "toothy" edge. When slicing a tomato you could tell it was very sharp but there was some reluctance on the knife's part once the skin was pierced. It's hard to describe.
    Both knives passed the tomato test when they left my hands, although some parts of the Mizuno didn't quite make it due to the damage it sustained during testing. Under the scope, you could see some parts of the edge just weren't getting abraded evenly. The 20k does remove most of the bite to an edge (hence, it's my shaving stone). However, I'm generally able to pass the tomato test, as you showed after using the 20k, if I'm careful. I definitely pass it if I follow up with any sort of strop; loaded or unloaded. My theory is the banging around in the saya did enough misaligning of the edge that it didn't quite do it by the time the brown truck of joy got back to you.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Salty dog's Avatar
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    yep, probably so. The Mizuno for sure. That saya isn't exactly tight.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by mainaman View Post
    true with light pressure one can get a better refinement. The stones do not have grit levels they are all the same when you start but the ones that are harder will allow for more refinement of the slurry and thus prprovide higher level of finish. If you look at slurry of Jant soft and hard stones have the same size particles when freshly raised. Recently one of the razor guys who lives in Japan posted a nice write up on natural stones that discusses that partf of natural stones.

    http://japanshave.blogspot.com/2011/...-it-going.html

    so what really controls how well a stone will finish is the hardness of the stone
    i've read and discussed similar things with the sharpeners and stone companies i deal with in Japan... a lot of this is very true and the levels of refinement razor guys are looking for come more from hard stones than soft stones. That being said, the level of refinement we are talking about here is not the same. The ability of the particles to break down quickly is also part of the function. I've tested a number of stones at this point and so when i "rate" the stones, i do it more based on my relative experience of what is what. That being said, if you use hard pressure the entire time and work up a ton of mud, never releasing the pressure to refine the mud, the finish will be more coarse. Thats for sure. However, if you work up a slurry and gradually release your pressure you can get refinement on these stones (and many other softer muddy stones... aoto, hakka, etc.).

    On a similar note, one of th things that makes softer muddy stones useful is that you can get a very nice even finish from them (especially on larger/wider bevels). However, this technique requires very light pressure, so you end up refining the slurry during this process too.

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