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Thread: assymetric grind or assymetric knife?

  1. #21
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwiefel View Post
    I wish I could see what you are seeing...I understand this conceptually, but I have yet to figure out how to look at a knife to see this.
    the line on the right (which is the left face of the blade) is basically straight up and down (flat.) see how the line on the left (which is the right face of the blade) is at an angle, in relation to the other line?

  2. #22
    Senior Member Chefdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwiefel View Post
    I wish I could see what you are seeing...I understand this conceptually, but I have yet to figure out how to look at a knife to see this.
    Try this:

    Put the edge down on the board and look from behind at the choil, making sure the left side (assuming a rh knife) is completely perpendicular to the board. Now check out the right side o the blade. It should be easy to see that the right face of the blade IS NOT also perpendicular, but is angling outward as it goes up from the edge to the spine.

    Alternatively: Lay the left face down on a flat surface with the edge facing to your right (handle towards you). Now take a look at the incline of as you go from edge to spine, it'll look like the worlds tiniest bike ramp.

    Hope this makes it easier to see what everyone is saying. Essentially the knife is a wedge, but one side (left) is completely vertical and the other (right) is at an outward sloping angle.

    The blade is shaped like this, THEN, they grind in the actual cutting bevels according to the proportional asymmetry of the whole blade.

  3. #23
    As I understand the grind should be based on the use of the blade. Is there a nice diagram with pictures and explanations of different knife grinds? It would be a great help to decide how to best sharpen/grind the blade to a certain function.

  4. #24

    Zwiefel's Avatar
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    OK, took ThEoRy's advice and used a sheet of paper as a straightedge. Definitely able to see a subtle curve on the LHS of the photo vs the RHS. If I just stare at the choil and squint just so, I can see that it's more of a right-triangle than an isosceles...but I'm not able to convince myself that I'm not seeing what I expect to see (confirmation bias). Not yet anyway. I was pretty pleased with myself that I immediately noticed the bevels were asymmetric!

    Would you all agree that, if properly created + maintained, asymmetric bevel should indicate an asymmetrical grind? That was the primary think I think I learned from Dave's thread on asymmetry.

    Thanks to ThEoRy, EdipisReks, and ChefDog for the pointers.
    Remember: You're a unique individual...just like everybody else.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Benuser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhlee View Post
    Can you name some examples?
    I wrote, a really symmetric blade would wedge as no other. Please note this is hypothetic. Symmetric in this context was meant to describe a blade where both faces were equally flat or convex.
    No serious brand makes such blade, as they would wedge as a wig, encountering friction at exactly the same height on both sides.
    One used to find those blades on markets.
    By the way, Michael, I don't believe you were asking for examples of wedging after a 50/50 edge had be put on a strongly asymmetric blade, weren't you? The archives are full of wedging issues after EdgePRO abuse.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Benuser View Post
    I wrote, a really symmetric blade would wedge as no other. Please note this is hypothetic. Symmetric in this context was meant to describe a blade where both faces were equally flat or convex.
    No serious brand makes such blade, as they would wedge as a wig, encountering friction at exactly the same height on both sides.
    One used to find those blades on markets.
    By the way, Michael, I don't believe you were asking for examples of wedging after a 50/50 edge had be put on a strongly asymmetric blade, weren't you? The archives are full of wedging issues after EdgePRO abuse.
    No. I wasn't asking for examples about a 50/50 edge on a strongly asymmetric blade. I was asking about a 50/50 grind - flat or convex - because I'm curious about this.

    IIRC, the two knives that I've owned that had the least amount of wedging were the ones that were closest to 50/50 convex ground on both sides. But, I'm going to look into this to verify this.

    Thanks.
    Michael
    "Don't you know who he is?"

  7. #27
    Senior Member Benuser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhlee View Post
    No. I wasn't asking for examples about a 50/50 edge on a strongly asymmetric blade. I was asking about a 50/50 grind - flat or convex - because I'm curious about this.

    IIRC, the two knives that I've owned that had the least amount of wedging were the ones that were closest to 50/50 convex ground on both sides. But, I'm going to look into this to verify this.

    Thanks.
    With European blades it's common to find both faces being convexed, but into a different degree. Even than, you will see that one face is convexed only at its lower part, while the other's convexity starts from the spine on.

  8. #28
    Senior Member chinacats's Avatar
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    Easiest way for me to see the face shape (convexity...) is to lay a flat edge (ruler, pencil, paper) against the blade (spine to edge) and see the contact points, on J-blade almost always full contact on left side and only partial on right.
    once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right

  9. #29
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    It's funny that this topic should pop up because I was just thinking about posting a question about my most recent knife, a Takeda Banno Funayuki. All of my japanese knives are asymmetric, but this one has a very symmetric bevel and edge. Maybe the shop that I bought it from decided to sharpen it? With the Kurouchi finish I can't really lay a straight edge on it to check the faces, but the entire geometry seems pretty symmetric as well. Is it just mine?

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