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Thread: Masamoto KS info to pass on

  1. #21
    There is a difference between mono steel and honyaki. A masamoto honyaki is over $1000. The differential heat treatment allows for a harder edge without a knife that is too brittle
    Huw
    In order to make delicious food, you must eat delicious food. Jiro Ono

  2. #22
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    I was under the impression there were two ways honyaki were used. Monosteel with all blade hardness and monosteel with differential hardness which usually has a hamon line if it's a shallow hardening steel. Still don't see the big deal. Go onto bladeforums right now and I bet at least 5 of the knives on the first page of the makers' forum are differentially heat treated I bet. I agree they look nice with that line. Maybe it's harder with kitchen knives because they're so thin? I

  3. #23
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    it's my understanding that thinner knives are much more likely to warp when water quenched.

  4. #24
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    True. Actually I'd think the hitachi steels would have less problem with this as the very high carbon content allows a lower hardening temp. But why do people go all gaga over honyaki knives. I mean the performance wouldn't be better. They're harder to sharpen. They're very expensive. And once you sharpen to the hamon they're a paperweight even though that would take a lifetime of use. And I think san-mai blades look better with the contrast you get between the hagane and jigane. Different strokes I guess. Actually the whole differential heat treat thing doesn't make sense. For outdoor knives yes but in the kitchen they don't see heavy enough of use for a softer spine to be necessary. Brittleness only matters at the edge which this style of making doesn't affect

  5. #25
    Senior Member mpukas's Avatar
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    A honyaki blade can snap in half rather easily. The softer spine adds overall strength.
    Shibui - simplicity devoid of unnecessary elements

  6. #26
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicv View Post
    True. Actually I'd think the hitachi steels would have less problem with this as the very high carbon content allows a lower hardening temp. But why do people go all gaga over honyaki knives. I mean the performance wouldn't be better. They're harder to sharpen. They're very expensive. And once you sharpen to the hamon they're a paperweight even though that would take a lifetime of use. And I think san-mai blades look better with the contrast you get between the hagane and jigane. Different strokes I guess. Actually the whole differential heat treat thing doesn't make sense. For outdoor knives yes but in the kitchen they don't see heavy enough of use for a softer spine to be necessary. Brittleness only matters at the edge which this style of making doesn't affect
    why do i get the impression that you haven't ever used a honyaki kitchen knife, or every seen what a kitchen can dish out?

  7. #27
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    I haven't used a honyaki knife. That's what I'm trying to figure out. As I said not starting an argument just generally want to know. I'm not a pro chef just an overachieving home cook . But I do cut things in my kitchen and I know the edge is the only thing that touches anything or at least that's all that should. For a knife to snap in half I can't think of what could cause that but if that's the case I'd think the hardness is a little too high to be a good knife. Like not tempered at all. But I truly don't know. I do have an EDC knife I carry all day every day and use it a lot harder than a kitchen knife and it's 01 at 63-64 HRC and ground to .012 behind the edge and I haven't broken it in half. I just can't see a kitchen being harder on a knife than a construction site. Obviously people with more experience know better. Just my take on things. But that doesn't answer why honyaki knives are so sought after

  8. #28
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    unless you chip gravel with your EDC, i don't think a construction site is going to be tougher than a pro kitchen, by any means.

    my Honyaki is awesome, and i own and have owned and have used a lot of top tier knives, mostly very good san-mai. best edge i've used. the other honyakis i've used have been similar. just as there is much more to a sportscar than 0-62, there is a lot more to a knife than hardness. even regarding hardness and fracturibility, you have to keep in mind that kitchen knives tend to be much thinner for larger percentages of section than a skinner or EDC. that means they are much more likely to fracture if, say, somebody tries to cut through a back bone with a hard knife.

  9. #29
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    Ok. I also assume being that they're the smith's top tier line they also get a lot more care and attention to detail as their lower lines( not saying their lower lines are sub-par.) What's so hard about a kitchen on knives as far as wear and tear? I mean you're cutting soft material that as far as I know isn't abrasive like rope and other fibrous materials. As a home cook I know I can take my time and I'm easy on them. But the only thing my kitchen knives touch is food and wood. And I agree on there being more than hardness. I just used it as an example. Overall heat treat and steel quality are very important but at least hardness numbers are an objective thing you can go off of(generally). Not to mention grind and geometry and such. If you thought I was in some way downgrading honyaki knives that wasn't the case. Just asking questions and since it seemed this thread was already pretty much dead it'd be a good place

  10. #30
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    go cut up some rutabagas or 50 pounds of leeks and then tell me that they aren't abrasive.

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