san-mai vs monosteel

[Canadian]

In terms of cutting performance, there should be no difference, however, a thinly ground sanmai knife could be bent and stay bent, while monosteel will flex back. For me it is a major factor choosing one over the other. On thicker knives like yanagi, deba and others, bending or warping is only an issue if heat treatment is not at its best, but those could be straightened (in most cases).

I agree. Moreover, anybody who attempts to claim that the technical performance of San Mai construction is better in terms of "durability" or "toughness" due to the softer core is full of crap considering the design function of a chef's knife.

[chinacats]

Thanks for the responses folks, just the information I was looking to hear.

Cheers

[Larrin]

O

I haven't used a ton of clad blades, but the ones I have used have been noticeably stiffer vs monosteel knives of comparable thickness. I haven't noticed a discernible difference in feel between the two, but I haven't really been looking for it. I like less flex in my blades...

There is no difference in stiffness between soft and hard steel.

[sachem allison]

O
There is no difference in stiffness between soft and hard steel.

Larrin, would there be a difference in stiffness do to lamination? I know many laminated woods are stiffer than the original components on their own.

[Chefdog]

I certainly won't argue your knowledge of the properties of steel. That's definitely a losing battle on my part.
But, I wasn't claiming that I notice a difference between harder and softer steel, if that's what you inferred from my statement. I was just saying that in my (limited) experience, the san mai blades I've used have seemed to have less flex than the monosteel knives I've used. Obviously, that's quite a small sample, and I guess probably says more about those particular knives than it does about the inherent differences in blade construction.
I'd certainly like to hear the scoop on this though. Are there any metallurgical factors at play concerning the stiffness between mono/clad blades, or is it just down to the properties of individual knives?

[EdipisReks]

O
There is no difference in stiffness between soft and hard steel.

well, that would really depend on how soft the steel is, right? i'd say half an ounce of steel living in a big jar of aqua regia is going to be pretty soft, and pretty non-stiff

the san-mai knives i've used have tended to be quite stiff, which i like, but i'd say that they are stiff because they tend to have thicker spines than monosteel knives. i love san-mai knives like Heiji, Shig (and the good) Takedas. i hope to try a DT san-mai,some day.

[PierreRodrigue]

The examples of san mai I have made, have no "softer" layer. I construct mine using all hardenable steels. O1, 1084, 15N20. If the bend, and if they take that bend, I screwed up big time!

[chinacats]

The examples of san mai I have made, have no "softer" layer. I construct mine using all hardenable steels. O1, 1084, 15N20. If the bend, and if they take that bend, I screwed up big time!

So can I infer that when you temper that you are hardening/treating the whole blade and likely the hardness while not the same, is probably proportional? I can honestly say that any blade that I have bent back has snapped right back into place like I would think it should, this includes san mai as well as monosteel.

[EdipisReks]

The examples of san mai I have made, have no "softer" layer. I construct mine using all hardenable steels. O1, 1084, 15N20. If the bend, and if they take that bend, I screwed up big time!

My Takedas will bend, if made to, but I've never seen any other clad knives, and I've owned and used dozens, have any bendy characteristics, so I'd say you are doing it right!

[mpukas]

Hoss made a post quite a while back saying that san mai blades are stiffer due to the tension created between the different steels when forge welded. Hoss - correct me if I'm wrong.