Revisions to the "What Knife Should You Buy" Questions

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mhlee

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I'm posting here because the "What Knife Should You Buy" sticky/thread is closed.

We've had those questions for some time, and, although it's a good start in my opinion, it seems that some critical questions could be included in order to better assist members, especially new ones, who are looking to buy a new knife.

Currently, these are the questions:

----------

What type of knife(s) do you think you want?

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
Aesthetics-
Edge Quality/Retention-
Ease of Use-
Comfort-

What grip do you use?

What kind of cutting motion do you use?

Where do you store them?

Have you ever oiled a handle?

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use?

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing?

Have they ever been sharpened?

What is your budget?

What do you cook and how often?

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)?

----------

Follow up questions to these always seem include:

1. What length of knife are you looking for?
2. Western or wa handled knife?
3. Are you right or left handed?

Are there other questions that you think should be included?
 
I agree, but as long as it is easy to answer.... I wouldn't try to narrow the steel just yet. Maybe leave it like you guys just said... Carbon or stainless...

Let the community suggest the best steel...

And what do you cook? Maybe what ingredients do you cut, or what kind of ingredients do you commonly use your knife on...

I prefer direct questions... Less room for interpretation.

:2cents:
 
Personaly I think some of the questions silly and generally have no sway in the suggestions I make, for example:

"have you ever oiled a handle", who cares, unless you are getting a custom handle, pom, g10, ho....all the same.
"Where do you store them" again, who cares, not going to make a suggestion for a knife based on where you keep it.
"Type of cutting board"...whether its epicurean, end grain, bamboo, or poly, it does nothing except give us ammo to ridicule, and is not a deciding factor for most knife suggestions.

Just my opinion on it.
 
"Where do you store them" again, who cares, not going to make a suggestion for a knife based on where you keep it.

noobs most of the time keep their knives in a drawer banging around with other things so if we suggest to keep their knives somewhere else or in a knife drawer that doesn't let stuff bang around each other then it would help them a lot better and help educate them =D

or some other place that would hurt the knives....
 
noobs always keep their knives in a drawer banging around with other things so if we suggest to keep their knives somewhere else or in a knife drawer that doesn't let stuff bang around each other then it would help them a lot better and help educate them =D

Would be better to simply write a paragraph about how to store knives, and what kind of boards to use than ask. As Kalaeb said, all that asking does is give a reason to pick fault with people.

Type of steel is the biggest thing I think is missing. Maybe where the knife will be used.
 
Would be better to simply write a paragraph about how to store knives, and what kind of boards to use than ask. As Kalaeb said, all that asking does is give a reason to pick fault with people.

understood. then maybe a sticky on knife grips, knife storage, knife maintenance, and what kind of boards are suggested should be in order =D
 
Carbon or stainless, home or pro environment.
 
understood. then maybe a sticky on knife grips, knife storage, knife maintenance, and what kind of boards are suggested should be in order =D


Personally, I'd even go as far as to sticky a range of commonly recommended knives, and the pros and cons of them. That all depends on if we actually want to have the 'what knife should I get' threads though.
 
a flowchart type of if then yes type of thing would work but that would take too long and too big a flowchart. lol.
 
wow lotta work yes, and thorough. (Ha that word looks wrong typed out :) ) But if someone is going to spend the time to ask for help picking out a knife I don't see them just throwing it in a 'drawer' amongst other metal scrapping utensils. Maybe a sticky on how to store long term and how to transport may be in order but, as I've seen there are people with scotch taped cardboard and also nicely made sayas for this... As far as oiling handles, I got hooked once I bought my first bottle of oil. It opened my eyes as to what the wood can do, from cheap to non. Hell, I oil my fish spat and that cost $20 and don't let it go through the dish anymore. ahhhh I'm corrupted.. :D
 
But if someone is going to spend the time to ask for help picking out a knife I don't see them just throwing it in a 'drawer' amongst other metal scrapping utensils

yes, but i doubt it'll be just that one person to use that knife in a home situation and that will lead to problems in the future. better to let them know now than let them find out for themselves, me thinks.

=D
 
Not sure if it was here, or on the old forum. But, there was a gyuto review thread with good specs and small review on each. Lots of popular gyutos on it if I remember right, might be in need of a good updating. Would be a good thread to have kicking around for people, I have seen alot of Gesshin vs. Kono vs. Yusuke vs. Suisin vs. IT lately. Having weight/size comparisons available on one thread can be enough to help people make a decision easier. It would also be funny to see how the knives have changed, I recall it had knives like Aritsugu A type, Blazen, Hattori, Masamoto, Ikkanshi Tadatsuna, Mizuno. Would be a lot of work to compile all of that info though :whistling:
 
The problem with the "What knife should you buy" questions: They assume a person has a working knowledge of high end knives. Also its hard to determine what information is trying to be gleaned from some of the questions.

What type of knife(s) do you think you want?

I'd think that most people who are new to this forum, have had a positive experience with their Global/Shun or another knife brand, and are wondering about the next step? How are they to know about a gyuto, sujihiki, deba, etc....

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
Aesthetics-
Edge Quality/Retention-
Ease of Use-
Comfort-

Again an experienced user could say, edge retention, ease of sharpening. A new user wants to see and learn about what would be the next step.

What grip do you use?

How does grip, affect the selection of a knife, either wa or western handled?

What kind of cutting motion do you use?

Chopping versus Push Cutting. European style knife versus a Japanese style knife. Which type of knife fits your cutting style? The problem most people until they come to the forums don't know about push cutting.

Where do you store them?

How does this help make a selection?

Have you ever oiled a handle?

The question is trying to determine how much effort a person is willing to put into a knife's upkeep? It is an awkward and confusing question.

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use?

How is a cutting board a factor in choosing a knife?

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing?

Another awkward question.

Have they ever been sharpened?

The question should be followed up with what method was used to sharpen your knife?

What is your budget?

A new person may be wondering how much they have to spend to get a quality knife.

What do you cook and how often?

A better question would be what types of food to you like to cook? Do you have a favorite cuisine? How many people do you cook for on a regular basis. Do you cook for large groups? Are you a home cook? Do you cook in a restaurant?

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)?

How does this question have any bearing on the selection of a knife?

Types of metal is a good question for an experienced user. A new person might be surprised to learn that carbon is an option, since most knives in the kitchen are stainless.

Maybe some new stickies to guide new users on topics they want to consider before buying a knife, with topics such as: Differences between German and Japanese knifes. Why kind of cook would appreciate a German knife or a Japanese knife? What is required to take care of a Japanese knife? What are the advantages/disadvantages of carbon and stainless steel? What to expect from a knife at the $100 - $200 level, the $300 - $400 level, $500 and up?

Jay
 
Jay, you do have a point. One one would need is a few separate info-threads/posts aimed at beginners that give the basic knowledge about knives in general. Question is - is there enough interest and who is willing to invest the time and effort AND how it should be implemented in the forum such that it does not get overlooked 90% of the time.
 
in the interest of helping out folks who find it very intimidating to go to knife forums with little to no knowledge about knives and such.... it would be a great help for them....
 
The What Knife Should I Buy questionnaire is pretty solid, but definitely geared towards a more knowledgeable crowd.
There is room for paring it down the number of questions, sectioning it off into critical need-to-knows (set the bevel), and refining questions (polish your edge). Fewer questions, and making it obvious which ones need to be answered makes the questionnaire easier to answer.

As Matus pointed out, a great way to inform more prospective knife buyers before they ask the question is to include links to more information within the questionnaire itself. There is a lot of good information scattered throughout this forum but new people aren't going to find it unless they know the terms to search for. Outside of this forum, it's a messy world of misconceptions. I think it'd be great to have one-stop-shop threads for Knife Types, Steel Types, Edge Maintenance, and Wood Maintenance referenced within WKSIB. Each main thread could have an expert curator with threads about the theory, and practical applications.

This is by no means comprehensive, but based on what I've seen in a lot of these threads, the mandatory questions might be:
  • Budget
  • Left/Right Handed
  • Application: home/pro environment? what food is being cut?

Refining questions would be stuff like:
  • What do you already have?
  • Handle preference
  • Steel preference
  • Sharpening practice
  • Etc.

Any questions that require elaboration can have a link to the Kitchen Knife Knowledge thread pertaining to the topic. A new knife knut would then have no excuse. If an expert knut wants the forum's opinion on what knife to buy next, that person already knows what context to provide.
 
If someone is willing to redo the questionnaire (maybe a tweaked version?) then I'll get it posted.

Also, if anyone wants to tackle something like a knife list with attributes. etc then I'll post that too, probably in the Kitchen Knowledge section though.
 
If someone is willing to redo the questionnaire (maybe a tweaked version?) then I'll get it posted.

Also, if anyone wants to tackle something like a knife list with attributes. etc then I'll post that too, probably in the Kitchen Knowledge section though.


Since I started this thread, I'll do the revised questionnaire. I'll post a revised one here for review.
 
Jay, you do have a point. One one would need is a few separate info-threads/posts aimed at beginners that give the basic knowledge about knives in general.

In my experience, there are really only a few universally accepted facts about knives, except, maybe, a sharp knife is better than a dull knife, and some things about steel, e.g., higher hardness steel is likely to be more prone to chipping. Sure, there can be some threads about the terminology and parts of a knife, but does that really help a member choose a knife? (Note that the original questionnaire had links and there are PLENTY of threads in Kitchen Knife Knowledge that cover basic principles and more.)

Opinions and experiences vary tremendously and the context of the person's opinion and experience are critical. (I think the pro/home environment question is essential.) One knife that someone loves, may be a knife that someone else hates. Sharpness, thickness, weight, balance, vary with every knife, and as a knife gets used, it changes. A single steel used by different maker exhibits completely different characteristics. The only way to provide "basic knowledge" about specific knives, IMHO, is to provide such knowledge about a knife right out of the box, and give each a similar edge which is nearly impossible because of human differences, steel, etc.

And, this was not the purpose of this thread, which was to focus the questionnaire so that it's more responsive to members who are looking for knives - to obtain information from the member, so we can then provide better information to the member, not just to throw information at them because the member may not even care about that. Expecting a member to accept information, opinions at face value requires a willingness to learn from the member, which, in my experience, is sometimes too much to expect, not to mention the fact that many opinions posted may not be based on personal experience or facts.

I can't tell you how many times how many times I've asked what kind of performance a member is looking for only to have them simply say "I want something that will keep an edge a long time" and then have them go off and list a number of great looking knives, that are way beyond, for example, their stated budget and that may or may not be appropriate for the member, even though I (or someone else) asked repeatedly about performance, food release, wedging, etc. (Sound familiar, Matus?) More importantly, most people who want great knives aren't even prepared for (1) the price, or (2) the care required.

But, rather than blaming the member who filled out the questionnaire for not providing enough information, we can revise the questionnaire to address some of these deficiencies.
 
From my recent experience of knowing nothing about knives and coming here I can say that the question about oiling a handle made me think "of course I have never oiled a handle" and seemed elitist. I think it served an interesting purpose though, which was to put into my mind the fact that handles might actually need oiling. Similarly with chopping boards, sharpening/maintenance and storage questions. It makes you realise that these are important things to consider with decent knives.

Maybe a questionnaire should have some initial sections somewhat like this [what my answers would have been will follow in italics]:


1. Budget, L/R handed, use. (~$150, R, general cookery)

2. What do you have already, and why are you looking for a new knife? (10 yr old battered stainless 8" Sabatier, it is old and battered and I think it is time for a new knife. Also have a small Global that I rarely use.)

3. Are you looking at a particular knife, or type of knife, and do you know why? (I was looking at wusthofs etc then discovered the world of J-knives and so would like a J-knife because They seem to be the best. I think an 8" gyuto?)


Then have some refining/technical questions about the knife, ie:

4. Are you aware of differences in steel types, and do you have a preference? (unaware, willing to learn)

5. Would you like a wa or yo handle? (unaware, willing to try anything)

6. are any of the following important to you, and how: aesthetics, weight, etc(?) (aesthetics are important, but very subjective. I like the kanji, I would like a light knife perhaps.

Then have Q's to teach maintenance.

7. What kind of chopping board, pointing out that Wood/plastic are ok, glass etc not okay (bamboo, willing to learn)

8. Sharpening and edge maintenance, handle oiling, pointing out that decent knives need decent maintenance. (I have a 240/1000 stone, again I need to learn all this stuff, didn't realise a knife would be so complicated!)

>>>>>>
EDIT as I just read Michaels post above:

I think you are right - it is important with the questionnaire to establish quickly whether the person is a complete novice (like I was), or whether they are someone who has pretty good knowledge and has a decent idea what they want. It might even be good to have a link that says "if you are a novice, then you should read this first" that links to a basic guide detailing costs and what you can get in each price band, differences in steels and maintenace, and the need for stones with suggestion of very basic entry set-ups etc.

It can be tiresome to see one's advice ignored, but it also is tiresome to say "I have budget of $100" and then get recommendations with no qualification for $200 knives!
 
From my recent experience of knowing nothing about knives and coming here I can say that the question about oiling a handle made me think "of course I have never oiled a handle" and seemed elitist. I think it served an interesting purpose though, which was to put into my mind the fact that handles might actually need oiling. Similarly with chopping boards, sharpening/maintenance and storage questions. It makes you realise that these are important things to consider with decent knives.

Maybe a questionnaire should have some initial sections somewhat like this [what my answers would have been will follow in italics]:


1. Budget, L/R handed, use. (~$150, R, general cookery)

2. What do you have already, and why are you looking for a new knife? (10 yr old battered stainless 8" Sabatier, it is old and battered and I think it is time for a new knife. Also have a small Global that I rarely use.)

3. Are you looking at a particular knife, or type of knife, and do you know why? (I was looking at wusthofs etc then discovered the world of J-knives and so would like a J-knife because They seem to be the best. I think an 8" gyuto?)


Then have some refining/technical questions about the knife, ie:

4. Are you aware of differences in steel types, and do you have a preference? (unaware, willing to learn)

5. Would you like a wa or yo handle? (unaware, willing to try anything)

6. are any of the following important to you, and how: aesthetics, weight, etc(?) (aesthetics are important, but very subjective. I like the kanji, I would like a light knife perhaps.

Then have Q's to teach maintenance.

7. What kind of chopping board, pointing out that Wood/plastic are ok, glass etc not okay (bamboo, willing to learn)

8. Sharpening and edge maintenance, handle oiling, pointing out that decent knives need decent maintenance. (I have a 240/1000 stone, again I need to learn all this stuff, didn't realise a knife would be so complicated!)

If you look back at the questionnaires that have been answered, most people don't bother to provide such detailed answers.
 
If you look back at the questionnaires that have been answered, most people don't bother to provide such detailed answers.

True enough - I am guessing a lot of people just think "hey I want a cool japanese knife, I'll just tell these forum guys I want to spend $200 on a shiny one"

(nb I edited my reply above for you)
 
Maybe some new stickies to guide new users on topics they want to consider before buying a knife, with topics such as: Differences between German and Japanese knifes. Why kind of cook would appreciate a German knife or a Japanese knife? What is required to take care of a Japanese knife? What are the advantages/disadvantages of carbon and stainless steel? What to expect from a knife at the $100 - $200 level, the $300 - $400 level, $500 and up?

Jay

Jay:

Most of these questions are addressed in Kitchen Knife Knowledge, or there are links in that forum to websites that provide such information.

And, again, there are nearly no universal answers to several of your questions, e.g. What is required to take care of a Japanese knife? What are the advantages/disadvantages of carbon and stainless steel? What to expect from a knife at the $100 - $200 level, the $300 - $400 level, $500 and up?

Of the top of my head, I can only think that whetstones are required to take care of a Japanese knife, and the only universal advantage/disadvantage of carbon vs. stainless is one stains, the other doesn't.
 
It might even be good to have a link that says "if you are a novice, then you should read this first" that links to a basic guide detailing costs and what you can get in each price band, differences in steels and maintenace, and the need for stones with suggestion of very basic entry set-ups etc.

Sorry, but that's not the purpose of this questionnaire from what I understand because that leads to the implication that if a knife doesn't have some characteristic at a certain price, it's a lesser knife; the converse is pointing out characteristics and/or knives right off the bat which is something that is necessarily opinion and, essentially, marketing.
 
Sorry, but that's not the purpose of this questionnaire from what I understand because that leads to the implication that if a knife doesn't have some characteristic at a certain price, it's a lesser knife; the converse is pointing out characteristics and/or knives right off the bat which is something that is necessarily opinion and, essentially, marketing.
Jay:

Most of these questions are addressed in Kitchen Knife Knowledge, or there are links in that forum to websites that provide such information.

And, again, there are nearly no universal answers to several of your questions, e.g. What is required to take care of a Japanese knife? What are the advantages/disadvantages of carbon and stainless steel? What to expect from a knife at the $100 - $200 level, the $300 - $400 level, $500 and up?

Of the top of my head, I can only think that whetstones are required to take care of a Japanese knife, and the only universal advantage/disadvantage of carbon vs. stainless is one stains, the other doesn't.

I am not sure it is the right approach to get too worried about depth of information at the questionnaire stage. Like when you learn French at school no-one is going to get upset about teaching the pluperfect subjunctive when the pupil can not say "Je m'apelle Robert". Basic intro is just that...e.g:

Regarding price:

Someone first coming here will probably be used to idea that they can pay maybe $100 for a top end german knife. It is easy to say that for $100 you can get a good entry level J-knife, but that the price rises to thousands, and that for $100-200 you can expect a knife with better steel/better F&F, again up to $500 the best steel, and past that crazy custom heirlooms. The idea is that this is a really basic guide for people who know nothing, and could show them that they can get a very good knife for $100, but also to try explain why other knives are more expensive.

Regarding maintenance:

Of course there is no universal answer, but it is not very controversial to say that learning to use whetstones [or having someone do it for you] is important with a knife, and not to put them in dishwasher, and to dry them, and that carbon will need different type of care to stainless.

As for you saying that pointing a novice to a basic guide is not the point of the questionnaire, I am at a loss there. The point of the Q is to help someone choose a knife. If we can point them to a very basic thing to read that will mean everyone doesn't have to keep saying "ah yes but what kind of chopping board do you have?" or "you have to spend $500 on stones" then I don't see why you would have an issue with that.
 
I am not sure it is the right approach to get too worried about depth of information at the questionnaire stage. Like when you learn French at school no-one is going to get upset about teaching the pluperfect subjunctive when the pupil can not say "Je m'apelle Robert". Basic intro is just that...e.g:

Regarding price:

Someone first coming here will probably be used to idea that they can pay maybe $100 for a top end german knife. It is easy to say that for $100 you can get a good entry level J-knife, but that the price rises to thousands, and that for $100-200 you can expect a knife with better steel/better F&F, again up to $500 the best steel, and past that crazy custom heirlooms. The idea is that this is a really basic guide for people who know nothing, and could show them that they can get a very good knife for $100, but also to try explain why other knives are more expensive.

Regarding maintenance:

Of course there is no universal answer, but it is not very controversial to say that learning to use whetstones [or having someone do it for you] is important with a knife, and not to put them in dishwasher, and to dry them, and that carbon will need different type of care to stainless.

As for you saying that pointing a novice to a basic guide is not the point of the questionnaire, I am at a loss there. The point of the Q is to help someone choose a knife. If we can point them to a very basic thing to read that will mean everyone doesn't have to keep saying "ah yes but what kind of chopping board do you have?" or "you have to spend $500 on stones" then I don't see why you would have an issue with that.



First, a questionnaire, is to gather information, not to present a guide. The members are to provide their own opinions as to knives that fit within the parameters of the answers to the questionnaire.

People also have budgets. If they want to go over it, that's up to the person filling out the questionnaire. But, that's why I'm thinking the "budget" should changed to "absolutely maximum budget" so people don't start recommending knives that $100 over the "absolute maximum budget."

Again, a "guide" to knives inherently includes opinion. And who's to say that a knife at $500 has better steel than a $200 knife? Who's to say that one steel is better than another? Some makers here are fantastic with the steels they use. But it's not necessarily a better steel for someone than another steel. What makes something "better steel"? Quality, hardness, toughness? What's "better" depends on opinion, use, and fit for the buyer.

As for the whetsone and cutting board questions, I'm working on them.

Please feel free to propose your own "guides" and put them up for comment and approval in a separate thread. Thank you.
 
Most people who use the questionnaire, are new to the forum. They fill out the form and then get follow up questions such as: Carbon or Stainless? Wa or Yo handle? Are you willing to learn to sharpen? What is your budget?

When I first came to the forums, I was surprised to learn that knives were still being made out of carbon. Why even consider a carbon knife?

First of all what is a Wa or Yo handle? How does a handle effect performance of a knife?

Most of the advice, in the food world, is don't sharpen your own knifes, you may ruin them, send them out to a pro. What is a new user to think, when they are asked that question?

It doesn't take long to realize that Japanese knifes are significantly more expensive then German ones. A new person wants a good knife, but they are not sure how much that is going to cost. I like Jon Broida's statement that the more expensive a knife is, the greater skills needed to take care of it.

Jay
 
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