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Important Announcement KKF has new owners - Page 17
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Thread: KKF has new owners

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mucho Bocho View Post
    Its sad that marks get a bad wrap here and can't defend himself.
    He has his own forum where where he'll never need to defend himself. But maybe you should consider that he (1) brought this on himself, and (2) the "bad wrap" is deserved.

    I, for one, am very glad that he's not here to color the discussions we have here. Do you see very honest, objective, critical discussions about the knives he sells on his own forum, like we do here, about how bad the grinds are, fit and finish, thickness, etc.?

    And, frankly, I and at least several other people I know of will never send him our business. He wouldn't have to "defend" himself if he treated us better in the first place.
    Michael
    "Don't you know who he is?"

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by mhlee View Post
    *Sigh* ... The point I was making was that should a non-paying member have more influence in changing a fundamental guideline regarding what will and will not be allowed in the forum that directly relates to third-party retailers that essentially compete with our vendors, over those vendors who paid their vendor fees based on clear representations and guidelines about what will and will not be allowed in the forum?
    Agreed that any agreement between vendors and the forum owners should be honored according to the terms. However, the answer to your question might relate to the greater question of whether the forum exists for the vendors or for the members, along with how much influence paying vendors should have. Do you really want them to have more of a say than paying/non-paying members? Surely it wouldn't be ideal if vendors dictated the terms of use and enacted censorship and, as much as some people like the previous admin, this seems to have been happening in the past. In this sense, having a non-vendor 3rd party come in to take on admin should bring greater objectivity to things.

  3. #163
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    It's not about Mark.

    Let me repeat that: it's not about Mark.

    It's about whether or not you trust your members to carry on a civil conversation about the pros and cons of various products and services. The vibe here, clearly, is that you don't.

  4. #164
    Senior Member chinacats's Avatar
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    Try to carry on a civil conversation about one of Mark's crap knives or service on his forum and you will see censorship.

    MKMK, it's likely more about Mark than you may think...

    Mucho, glad you've had good luck buying from Mark, others haven't been as fortunate.


    Quote Originally Posted by labor of love View Post
    mark and his cohorts have their own crappy forum. lets keep it that way.
    one man gathers what another man spills...

  5. #165
    Senior Member Duckfat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mucho Bocho View Post
    Its sad that marks get a bad wrap here and can't defend himself.
    Mark and his Merry band of misfits have destroyed enough forums with all of their BS, Shilling, paid reviews, paid writers, free knives for reviews etc. If you want to swim in that pool then you know where it's at but don't play on the beach and then cry because you got sand in your pu**y. I'm not a fan of censorship but the reality in this virtual playground is that there has to be some rules. As long as that censorship doesn't extend to the point that people are getting banned or locked out of the forum ala KF with their nuckin futty super mod I'm good with that.
    I'm not about to start slapping Dave on the back for selling out but I do wish him all the best.
    Who you jivin' with that Cosmik Debris?

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhlee View Post
    *Sigh*.

    I don't think you've read through the thread and you're missing the point. It's not about calling a spade a spade. It's about changing some fundamental guidelines that have been in place since nearly the very beginning of this forum regarding censorship and not allowing certain third-party retailers to be identified, whether by website links or by name.

    Sure the vendors pay to help their bottom line. But, they paid their fees based on certain clear representations and guidelines about what will be and will not be allowed in the forum.

    The point I was making was that should a non-paying member have more influence in changing a fundamental guideline regarding what will and will not be allowed in the forum that directly relates to third-party retailers that essentially compete with our vendors, over those vendors who paid their vendor fees based on clear representations and guidelines about what will and will not be allowed in the forum?
    You are wrong I have read the whole thread and there is nothing wrong with my comprehension. What you are missing is that because something has always been a certain way does not make it the correct or best way. Everyone who participates here should have an equal say to what needs changing and what does not. Payment status should have nothing to do with it in either direction.

    In the end it will be the new ownership that decides where to go with the forum that is what you get to do when you actually do pay the bills. I appreciate that they are allowing this conversation to happen in the meantime lots of stuff is being said that needs to be.

  7. #167
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    Obviously, the policy is there because of Mark. My point is that the effect of the policy is to erode the credibility of the entire forum.

    By suggesting that it's time to grow up and stop the censorship, I'm not asking for people to change their opinions, or to invite particular vendors in. I'm ultimately asking for a declaration of confidence in the members. If people are shilling or picking fights, it can dealt with by the mods -- but censorship conveys distrust, and merely reinforces the sense that this disagreement is emotional, personal, and irrational, rather than one that can be convincingly argued with clear evidence and a cool head.

    If Dave wants to convince me I shouldn't do business with someone, he can do it with a combination of dispassionate details and ample opportunity for those with different experiences to speak up. I have yet to see either of those things.

    One other key way in which the censorship nonsense erodes confidence in the opinions expressed here: it trickles into evaluations of knives. I've seen multiple brand comparisons that aren't really about the knives at all, but rather about the vendor. That's damaging to the entire conversation, and even to the preferred vendors here.

  8. #168
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    the whole point of this forum is to be an alternative to marks crap. at least, thats what i thought it was. if you include knifeforums, he actually has 2 forums where his word is law. if you really want to converse with him just go check in over there every once in a while. and BTW, he has defended himself-by comepletely denying that there was anything ever wrong with moritaka grinds period. wabi sabi anyone? the idea that mark has a place here is laughable.
    welcome to the forum austin! lol

  9. #169
    Senior Member chinacats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkmk View Post
    If Dave wants to convince me I shouldn't do business with someone, he can do it with a combination of dispassionate details and ample opportunity for those with different experiences to speak up. I have yet to see either of those things.
    go read a moritaka thread and report back...
    one man gathers what another man spills...

  10. #170
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    Several of you seem to want to argue about the products/vendor; my point is that censorship erodes the credibility of the entire discussion. I'm not taking sides.

    Anyway -- my point has been made. A new owner will take over, and will ultimately have to decide whether this is a discussion forum, or a marketing platform for particular vendors. It can't be both.

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