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  1. #61
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    Actually, the factory finish is still visible on the overground sections with some errant scratches from stone mud (can't really tell due to my camera skills). Mark said to call him, so I'll do that tomorrow. Anyways, I think Dave stated the issue best - holes in the edge later on.

    Olpappy, the knife was quite far from evenly ground, and admittedly, I expected a bit better, even at the price point. I'll see if I can polish it up and take a picture to show you guys.

    Steven, YEP. I agree. I briefly inspected the knife beforehand and found no issue, but they popped up when I put it to the stones.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by olpappy View Post
    So you expect perfection? Nothing is perfect. Perfection is an ideal that knifemakers try to achieve but never can be achieved. If you expect perfection, I suggest you make some knives yourself and see how that goes for you. When you can grind a knife blade perfectly without overgrinds, only then should you make them available to consumers.

    From the picture that was posted I can't tell if there was any imperfection to begin with, the original finish is no longer visible. All I can see is abrasions from stones. No knife has a perfectly flat face unless it is a custom, any knife made with grinding wheels will have irregularities show up if you start rubbing the face of it on stones. This is not a Doi yanagi we're talking about. Sharpening stones are made for sharpening, not for flattening gyutos. You CAN flatten the face of your gyuto and polish it, I have done it. OP, your knife will be fine, start flattening with 150 grit water stone, once that is completely flat then 220, 320, 400, 600, 1000, 2000, 4000, 6K, 8K, 10K etc. You can do it in about 2 weeks of grinding by hand. I have done it myself.
    Wow. You're kind of an ass. I didn't say I expect perfection nor did I say I was a maker or was going to do anything of the sort. Maybe my comments hit a little too close to home because you drive a POS. I don't know, but you completely misunderstood my post.

    Whatever the reason, one should still be able to expect a high level of quality regardless of price. That's what I wrote - I didn't say anything about perfection.

    Nonetheless, except for you and a few others, it seems that most people who have seen this objectively think that this is not a trivial defect. And, whether it's knives, food, giving legal advice, or whatever, the purchaser has a right by law to expect a certain standard of quality (not taking into consideration the length of time that has passed or the fact that he tried to thin it).

    My point was, as a purchaser, he has a right to expect a certain level of quality in manufacture that includes receiving a knife that does not have such a large overgrind. (It is quite clear where the original finish is versus the area that he tried to thin. The fact that you cannot tell really hurts whatever argument you are trying to make.) For that matter, I have knives around that price that clearly don't have anything similar to this overgrind.

    By your logic, if you're getting a deal on any knife and it's a good price, you should expect some defects, and this overgrind is an acceptable defect? Right?

    Wabi Sabi, bro?
    Michael
    "Don't you know who he is?"

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by labor of love View Post
    But there are numerous performance setbacks that could potientally arise from divots of this nature.
    I don't think it would affect performance much. A situation similar to this would be a Granton edge knife with cullens. If they are halfway up the blade,you won't get into the cullens until a substantial portion of the blade is abraded away.

    Some new knives actually have cullens extending into the edge area, see these pics:

    http://www.granton-knives.co.uk/gran...ge_knives.html

    http://www.stoddards.com/granton-10-...-granton-edge/

    These knives were made this way deliberately, not by mistake.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I briefly inspected the knife beforehand and found no issue, but they popped up when I put it to the stones.
    If you put the sides of a chef knife on stones it will almost never be completely flat, although they may look that way. Usually the small imperfections are blended together in the final stages of the finishing process so that they won't be visible, and make it look better. Same with single bevel knives, a yanagi may look flat but if you put it on stones often the blade road is concave but you can't see it.

  5. #65
    If the vendor himself does not have the skill to simply look at the reflections of light to be able to detect over/undergrinds, how can he expect his customers to have the same skill? All the people complaining about the 5 months stuff are acting like the OP bought some toilet paper, wiped his a**, and then tried to return it. What is actually the case is that most people can't spot overgrinds without thinning. Look at mhlee's post, he sure as hell knows more about knives than I do, and even he admits to struggling with just seeing these issues by eyesight alone. That doesn't mean that the product wasn't defective from the beginning. If you put your name on a product and market it as a good product, then be willing to answer to that. Otherwise, tell people you may be selling them crap that has a high likelihood of defects (because you don't know how to spot such defects) as a disclaimer at the beginning.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by mhlee View Post
    Wow. You're kind of an ass. I didn't say I expect perfection nor did I say I was a maker or was going to do anything of the sort. Maybe my comments hit a little too close to home because you drive a POS. I don't know, but you completely misunderstood my post.

    Whatever the reason, one should still be able to expect a high level of quality regardless of price. That's what I wrote - I didn't say anything about perfection.

    Nonetheless, except for you and a few others, it seems that most people who have seen this objectively think that this is not a trivial defect. And, whether it's knives, food, giving legal advice, or whatever, the purchaser has a right by law to expect a certain standard of quality (not taking into consideration the length of time that has passed or the fact that he tried to thin it).

    My point was, as a purchaser, he has a right to expect a certain level of quality in manufacture that includes receiving a knife that does not have such a large overgrind. (It is quite clear where the original finish is versus the area that he tried to thin. The fact that you cannot tell really hurts whatever argument you are trying to make.) For that matter, I have knives around that price that clearly don't have anything similar to this overgrind.

    By your logic, if you're getting a deal on any knife and it's a good price, you should expect some defects, and this overgrind is an acceptable defect? Right?

    Wabi Sabi, bro?
    Well, I don't usually like to compare knives to cars, but to me this is sort of like, my car looked OK when it was new but I took a grinder and ground off the paint, underneath I found a low spot on the door that was uneven, now I can't get it to look nice like it did before.

  7. #67
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olpappy View Post
    Some new knives actually have cullens extending into the edge area, see these pics:

    http://www.granton-knives.co.uk/gran...ge_knives.html

    http://www.stoddards.com/granton-10-...-granton-edge/

    These knives were made this way deliberately, not by mistake.
    no...James didnt purchase a granton knife...and FWIW atleast granton has some kind of pattern going on. That divot can most certainly create wedging problems down the road if its deep enough.

  8. #68
    Senior Member cwrightthruya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olpappy View Post
    Well, I don't usually like to compare knives to cars, but to me this is sort of like, my car looked OK when it was new but I took a grinder and ground off the paint, underneath I found a low spot on the door that was uneven, now I can't get it to look nice like it did before.

    Actually, It is more like I bought a car that looked ok new. Took some of the paint off and found that the door was dented from the factory and instead of replacing it like they should have, they just took a pound of bondo and made it look like nothing was there. Thats terrible QC, and quite dishonest.
    At Death's Door You Only Have 2 choices. Die Happy or Die Regretfully.
    Knowing this...........Choose 1 and Live!!!!!!!!!

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by cwrightthruya View Post
    Actually, It is more like I bought a car that looked ok new. Took some of the paint off and found that the door was dented from the factory and instead of replacing it like they should have, they just took a pound of bondo and made it look like nothing was there. Thats terrible QC, and quite dishonest.
    +1

    I think this says it all. I also think that part of the price you pay for any item includes the QC that should be done before the product gets to the customer...for this I blame the manufacturer and the retailer...neither should be proud of selling a piece of crap like that. Both should be willing to stand behind the product, no matter who has the legal responsibility.
    one man gathers what another man spills...

  10. #70
    It is interesting MR did not replace your knife. I had an incident with my M390 Artifex and replaced it without question. I'm interested in what you wrote to him to get a "no" response. Attitude and perception can go a long way.

    Pics of my incident. I was hand sanding with diamond pads and pop... (yes I had the blade on the board and about 5lbs of pressure on the handle to keep it steady)



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