Epicurean Edge

So, it seems like some online shops are panned on a regular basis and others are beloved, but EE seems to get no mention at all, positive or negative. As a rather new high end knife consumer, is there something I should read in to this lack of mention? Are they a reasonable source? Thanks.

I've used them a number of times. Always happy, but shipping times were inconsistent. Or I should say order processing times, not actual shipping. I have called to ask questions, and the staff seems to know their stuff. Stuff always arrived safe and packaged well. I would buy from them again.

My experience with them has also been very positive. A+ in my book.

-AJ

Fairly positive experience on my one purchase and I would use them again. Only drawback to me was that the prices on shipping seemed rather high, but I was buying stones so I guess that makes sense. Customer service was good.

I've bought several knives from them. Daniel the owner is a great guy, a little stuffy but cool.

I've been going there a couple times a year (from California) while visiting relatives for the last 10 years or so. The time before last I was interested in a Tadafusa santoku. Dan O'Malley (owner) brought one out from the back. I looked at it and it had uneven cladding. I asked if he had any a couple others I could look at. "I've got 15 of them back there," he said, "but I'm not bringing any more out. They're factory-made, and they're all the same." I went back later when he wasn't around, looked at 3 of them, and bought a nice one.

On my last trip I wanted to see a Yoshikane gyuto. The woman pulled it from the case. I held the tip carefully between thumb and finger and flexed it slightly. "Don't bend the blade," she said. "I'm not bending the blade, I just want to assess its flexibility." "Yeah, don't flex the blade," she repeated. I handed it back to her and left.

I emailed Dan about the incident. I reminded him that I was fairly experienced in owning, sharpening, polishing and repairing fine knives. I couldn't expect the salesperson to know this, but

SHE COULD HAVE ASKED.

"Have you been to our store before?"
"Do you know about Yoshikane knives?"
"Do you sharpen your own knives?"
"Is this your first Japanese knife?"

That kind of thing.

To his credit, Dan stuck to his guns and said that no one, whatever their level of experience, is allowed to test flexibility in the store.

I won't be going back.

I have had nothing but positive experiences with Dan and his crew. They're fairly well informed but no where near as knowledgeable as Jon @ JKI. I have visited them on a couple of occasions while I am flying through Seattle to Montana.

Another that doesn't get any love is Bernal Cutlery. It's in SF. I make a point of visiting the shop when I'm in town.

For a variety of reasons, I'd rather spend my money with one of the vendors on this forum. That said, I would order from EE if they had something unique that I wanted (though Wsfarrel's stories give me some pause).

wsfarrell, at least it's not just me that has a problem with the woman employee at EE. Although at least she let you HOLD the knife--one time I was in there and they had a custom Rader, and she wouldn't even take it out of the case to let me look at it. (Fine, you jerk, I got my custom directly from Mr. Rader and you didn't get a penny on the deal!) I went in anther time and wanted to look at a couple of Bill Burke's knives they had in a display case--she grudgingly got them out and then proceeded to pull out some of the least expensive knives in the store--pushing me to look at them instead. It was pretty blatant that she didn't want me looking at their higher-end knives. She's obnoxious and the main reason I don't go to EE anymore. Quite obvious about the fact that she doesn't think one is worthy.

Haven't had any real problems with the rest of the staff--they've been quite helpful and nice--but you don't know who will be working on a given day and I've spent a little too much money there for someone to treat me like dirt.

Lucretia,
Were you wearing your Oregon Gardening t-shirt when you went to EE?

LOL--no, probably the regular flannel and jeans Washington uniform. But it doesn't matter if I went in there in a pink polka-dot bikini furry bikini--they need to treat customers with a little respect.

Makes me think of my dad--it always seems like before he'd buy my mom a piece of jewelry, he'd go out and work in the yard, then head directly to the jewelry store in his nasty, holey, smelly yard clothes. Stores that treated him like a valued customer in spite of the fact that he looked like a slob tended to provide excellent service in general--and got more business.

I'm lucky enough to live fairly local to EE. It is nice to have a shop to actually be able to get hands on some of the stuff many folks can only access via mail order. That said after several trips there they have done nothing to inspire me to become a loyal customer. They offer a 10% discount on knives to Foodie Forum members. I took them up on that offer when I bought a Tadafusa Nakiri. They asked, "Are you an active member". I laughed and said yup, about as active as they get on that forum. There was a concern that some people just try to get the discount? When I bought a handle from them the discount did not apply to that. The in store customer service has been pretty marginal over 4 trips to the shop.

From an online only customer here -I've always had good service ordering online and I've ordered from them as far back as when they weren't even EE yet - just Blade Gallery.

I met Dan O' back in '95 at a hammer'in at Rick Dunkerley's shop in Montana. Dan at the time was an apprentice with Bob Kramer, which lasted more than two years. I can remember that there was a lot of discussion about the feasibility of an online store. There were three different web stores that opened within a few months of each other. Blade Gallery was the second to start up.

In 2002 the idea of a brick and mortar store came about so that they could let people handle some of the knives that they were selling. The store opened in 2003 and Epicurean Edge began in 2004.

Dan started working with Bill Burke back in '99, making knives and selling his knives. Dan is a very good knife maker and sharpener. He has been a real proponent of knives, knife makers, Japanese cutlery, hand made knives, etc. over the last 20 years. He's made multiple trips to Japan looking for new makers and suppliers.

It has been a great blessing for me to work with him and Drew and the rest of the staff. He has a very cooperative attitude with other venders. I can't say enough good about Dan and EE.

Love and respect

Hoss

Bernal Cutlery is a fine shop located in the Bernal Heights district of San Francisco. They just announced their move to the Mission District and a larger store smack dab in a huge foodie part of town. Great knives, sharpening services and classes in sharpening and knife skills. Highly recommended.

I've ordered from them a few times...fast shipping no issues, though I'm on the east coast and have never been inside the store. I would say this; if I got any sort of attitude like some of the other posters here I wouldn't go back...screw them. Quick story... I'm close to NYC, when I was heavy into the JK thing I used to go quite often, sometimes I would buy sometimes I wouldn't, but EVERY time they were more than respectful and wouldn't hesitate to take any knife out of the case no matter the price...even the first time I went there. After a few visits, they knew me by name and once Mr. Sugai was there and brought out a knife, he asked if I would like to see it. It was somewhat rustic looking, and looked like it was Damascus, quite a unique piece. I asked the price...10K. Now here is a guy who doesn't really know me from a hole in the wall, hands me a 10k knife to hold in my hand, and even asked if my wife wanted to hold it. That is the type of people I'd rather deal with. They would bring out 50 knives of the same brand if I asked...that is the way it should be.

I am also on the East Coast. I never had a problem with them, though it has been a while since I ordered from them. As someone else said, I'd rather support the vendors who support KKF.

vai777 said:

I would say this; if I got any sort of attitude like some of the other posters here I wouldn't go back...screw them.

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+1

vai777 said:

I've ordered from them a few times...fast shipping no issues, though I'm on the east coast and have never been inside the store. I would say this; if I got any sort of attitude like some of the other posters here I wouldn't go back...screw them. Quick story... I'm close to NYC, when I was heavy into the JK thing I used to go quite often, sometimes I would buy sometimes I wouldn't, but EVERY time they were more than respectful and wouldn't hesitate to take any knife out of the case no matter the price...even the first time I went there. After a few visits, they knew me by name and once Mr. Sugai was there and brought out a knife, he asked if I would like to see it. It was somewhat rustic looking, and looked like it was Damascus, quite a unique piece. I asked the price...10K. Now here is a guy who doesn't really know me from a hole in the wall, hands me a 10k knife to hold in my hand, and even asked if my wife wanted to hold it. That is the type of people I'd rather deal with. They would bring out 50 knives of the same brand if I asked...that is the way it should be.

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you never named the NYC store you're referring to...or did I miss it?

WiscoNole said:

you never named the NYC store you're referring to...or did I miss it?

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If Mr. Sugai was there, it was Korin.

I've ordered from them a few times...fast shipping no issues, though I'm on the east coast and have never been inside the store. I would say this; if I got any sort of attitude like some of the other posters here I wouldn't go back...screw them. Quick story... I'm close to NYC, when I was heavy into the JK thing I used to go quite often, sometimes I would buy sometimes I wouldn't, but EVERY time they were more than respectful and wouldn't hesitate to take any knife out of the case no matter the price...even the first time I went there. After a few visits, they knew me by name and once Mr. Sugai was there and brought out a knife, he asked if I would like to see it. It was somewhat rustic looking, and looked like it was Damascus, quite a unique piece. I asked the price...10K. Now here is a guy who doesn't really know me from a hole in the wall, hands me a 10k knife to hold in my hand, and even asked if my wife wanted to hold it. That is the type of people I'd rather deal with. They would bring out 50 knives of the same brand if I asked...that is the way it should be.

Click to expand...

I used to own a business, and tackled sales a whole lot of the time as I was a hands on business owner. I handled 99% of the sales talk and I have always done the same, and treated everyone the same and as respectfully as I can, within reason. I also worked as a computer technician and salesperson for 9 months, did that fantastically as well.

Nothing speaks more about the place more than the before, during and after service of sales.

Like Hoss said I have worked with Daniel for quite some time and can only say that I could ask for no better freind. Daniel has helped many new makers become established in their respective venue of labor. And strives to keep a supply of the best makers knives in stock. He has a standing order of ten knives a month with me which he very rarely gets. Yet still he does not get upset when I fill orders from you guys and he gets nothing.

I cannot count how many times I have seen Daniel buy knives from makers the last day of a show when they refused to sell him knives at the start of that same show. Then when they didn't sell anything during the show It's "hey Daniel Buddy". I probably would tell them that I had spent my budget for the show but maybee next time. Instead he buys their knives at the same price that he would have paid at the beginning of the show, so he can help out these makers.


I don't feel it is a fair comparison between someone who keeps several hundred thousand dollars worth of inventory, and a physical store with a lot of overhead, to an online store with little or no inventory. I believe the book, 'Japanese Kitchen Knives: Essential Techniques', that is availible on amazon is a second edition as the first edition was sold out and out of print when I bought my copy a couple of years ago. I paid 189 and change for it. imagine my chagrin when I seen the same book in EE for 129.00 turns out Daniel had searched for and bought a number of copies then sales them at only a 15% mark up. these same first edition books are now for sale for only 29.00 to compete with the second edition books on amazon. that is close to a hundred dollar per book loss.

Also how many of you would let someone come to your house and flex your san mai knives when they would very probably stay bent. that's like going to a art gallery and being upset because you are asked not to lick the Monets and because you lick the paint in your own house all the time you think it should be ok. If someone where in my shop and started flexing Or bending my knives they would be asked to stop and if they insisted that it was ok because they wanted to see if my knives would flex, they would be asked to leave. like wise if they started "looking" at all the carbon steel knives leaving me with the job of cleaning and oiling them all to prevent problems from rusty finger prints showing up. if they first asked If they could test the flex of a particular knife I might say go ahead or I might tell them that since a particular model is a sanmai with very soft outer cladding and is not ment to be flexed because it will most likely bend instead of flexing, it would be different. Wsferrel posted that the counter person could have asked him several things but he could have voluntered this information also. No one can read minds.

I my opinion the only person who has any legitimate complaint is Lucrecia and just so everyone knows the "Girl" who waited on her and wsferral is no longer employed At EE.

I realize that this post is going seem like an attack and it is not really intended to be but I am a very loyal freind and do not know how to say what I think needs said in any other way but plain words.

people need to think about things a little bit. I often get very pi$$ed off when I go into a store and get treated like I am an idiot.

I have aften walked out of the store swearing to never return. Then I think about how many people, in a city of several hundred thousand or several million, must go into that store to that same clerk and do really stupid crap. Then I start to understand the clerks reason for acting the way they did. If i in turn acted like an ass I will go back and apologise for my actions, take time to explain what or why I am doing get what I need and part freindly.

we as people seem to think that we are each "entitled" to special treatment. When we should be trying to treat others as if they where the ones entitled.

Thank you. That was really a lovely post. Sounds like a stand up man.

Thanks for taking the time to put down your thoughts Bill, I do think a supplier and customer both deserve to be treated with respect. I find it interesting how great the knife makers are treated, while some of the customers seem to see a different company face. I am glad to hear that the 'suppliers' do get taken care of, but find it disheartening that someone like Lucretia could be treated poorly. That said, I am glad that the person who provided the s****y customer service no longer works there. Judging from the sum of the posts above though I would say that there may be somewhat of a double standard as to how people are treated.
Again, my experience was fine--no where near as good as JKI, but not half as bad as I've received at other places (like ****). To me, I wouldn't hesitate to shop there again if they had something I was interested in buying, but wouldn't go out of my way to make a purchase there.

Cheers

I think that EE was certainly a pioneer in the high end knife world in the US. They were crucial in both bringing J-knives to our side of the ocean and in promoting and supporting the North American makers. There prices are much higher than direct from maker or other, newer retailers, but you can look at the difference as an "availability" or "waitlist pass" premium. If you want a BB or MR or DT and don't want to get in a multi-year line, then you're going to have to pay more....

So, I don't have any problem with their pricing structure, I appreciated the service they provide, what they've done for the market, and that they continue to exist. I bought 1 knife from them online before the name change / physical store and processing was a bit pokey, but otherwise the experience was good / uneventful. Still, the chance that I will ever buy another knife from them is very low / 0. Not because they are bad, just because there are other options that are so much better in terms of price and service.... and I have enough knives that I don't need to pay the "I want it now" tax.

With custom knives the maker sets the price and then gives a discount to EE. All of the knives and Damascus that I have sold through EE/BG have been the same price that I would sell them. Dan O' promotes my work and exposes my work to a new audience which is worth the little bit that he gets.

My hope is that one day everyone will have a chance to meet Dan O' and get to talk knives with him.

Love and respect

Hoss

My complaint against EE only applies to those of us that live in Washington. They are located in one of the highest sale tax areas of the state which means anything I might buy from them goes up by around 9% over their already premium prices. That is enough for me to take my business elsewhere.

A little pricey maybe but he keeps some cool stuff in stock, hence I'm guilty of several late night impulse purchases, with no regrets. Never had issues so I don't know about follow up. Even though I'm not really buying knives anymore I still check the site out from time to time. You never know.

Hoss, thank you for this information! It really makes purchasing from EE a good option, in my opinion.

Occasionally I look through all the old galleries at Foodie Forums and Dan O'Malley did some awesome rehandle work