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Thread: Sharp knife got dull with Sharpmaker.

  1. #21
    I don't see that there is any need to buy stones for maintaining razor edge.

    Use the sharpie on both sides.
    Do 2 strokes on each side with either rods.
    Post the pics.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by xuz View Post
    I don't see that there is any need to buy stones for maintaining razor edge.

    Use the sharpie on both sides.
    Do 2 strokes on each side with either rods.
    Post the pics.
    2 strokes? I don't get it. Sharpmaker recommends 20 per side and stick and that always worked very good for my needs until this knife.

    When watching guys with whetstone they use it for like 5-10 minutes. That's a lot more than 2 strokes

    Why would this combo require only 2 strokes to maintain a raizor sharp edge when all my other knifes need the 20+ and has no problems with it.

    I will return the knife for sharpening to start with. I cannot use a knife that gets ultra dull when used on the simplest sharpener on the market.

  3. #23
    Senior Member zitangy's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Soso View Post
    But what made the combination so destructive? Is it that the knife is very thin and the sharpmaker very aggressive meaning I should have done only like 5 strokes?

    1. I used only the 15 degree angle and the papers that came along with the knife recommended 15 degree angle.
    2. Sharpmaker instructions says around 20 strokes per side and stick which I started with. After this it became useless and the primary egg looked as the pictures. I hardly could come through a paper after this. No other knife have been dull using the sharpmaker in the same way. They get very sharp.

    The knife has a White #1 core with stainless steel cladding if that could matter.
    My thoughts...

    counting strokes is just a guide line... as said above, depends on how thin and sharp ( condition of knife) After sharpening and is is only the wire edge ( the 2 angles have met adn folded adn also thin ), only a few Light strokes are required , slightly more than just the weight of knife.

    Angles> I don't bother about angles. I only have high adn low, both are below 15 degrees.. One humanly low as best as I can to thin the secondary edge ( I suspect / guess abt 7-10 degrees) adn slightly or rather a notch higher for teh primary edge( cutting edge) which shld be abt 15 degrees hopefully. IF it is 20 degrees.. no harm done isn't it.. just not so sharp if I can tell teh difference, I bring is slightly lower.

    Why 2 angles? IF you only sharpen at one angle say 15 degrees ALL the time, as the primary edge receeds upwards( towards spine) it becomes thicker. That's why I figured .. honing or sharpening as low as you can and the final angle slightly higher.. which in effect forms a micro bevel is teh way to go for me... Oh yes, if teh blade is so worn out a 15 degree is not going to make it too.. I have tio thin teh whole blade.. either on a stone or a 150 grit sandpaper...

    Whatever angle you are using, the correct angle is that the primary edge must be in contact with teh stone if you are sharpening or deburring! that's all. IF you are thinning the edge ( secondary bevel) then the edge will not be in contact. For experiment, put knife flat on stone, you will fing that edge is not touching stone. Lift it up a bit till you feel that is just touching .. that is the correct angle...

    So whatever specific angles that you are referring to.. the Japanese makers I believe are doing it free-hand anyway and we all want to beluieve that it is the magical 15 degrees!

    IN the final analysis.. determine what you are trying to accomplish and do the needful and whatever works for you..

    Figure this out and after a while, a few fondling moments with any blade, you will roughly know what to do to make her perform to your expectations..
    Feel free to pm me anytime..

    have fun and stay sharp....

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Soso View Post
    2 strokes?
    Repeating strokes removes materials.
    If you do 1 or 2 strokes, it'll help us see where you are removing materials from.
    If you did 20 or 30 strokes, you will tend to rock your knife and sharpie won't show.
    Here's an example.


    After 2 strokes.

    You can see that I'm grinding away at the middle of the sharpie and not the edge. This will thin the blade but will not sharpen the edge. In your case, you need to grind the edge. I'm afraid you are hitting the edge, causing the problem.

  5. #25
    The punk rocking knife from Goko is back to normal and man do I love it.

  6. #26
    Senior Member zitangy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    congratulations! I hope that you did it yourself an mastered the knife

    Stay sharp adn have fun..

  7. #27
    Senior Member Miles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Deep in the heart of a Texas kitchen
    I have a sharpmaker which I've used successfully on all sorts of knives, but I've never used them on any of my Japanese blades. While I think you'll be able to use it, I don't think the sharpmaker is particularly well suited for the kinds of knives we talk about here. That's probably the main reason why you're having issues. My best guess is that you're using too much pressure and too many strokes and that you're not really hitting the edge squarely but more the sides of the core. Additionally, with the corners, you're concentrating ALL the pressure in a very small area which is probably the primary cause of the chipping and crumbling. Hard Japanese steel can be very delicate and may not respond very well to that kind of treatment. Your pocket knife will respond well, but not necessarily Japanese kitchen knives.

    I'm going to offer what might seem an odd bit of advice. If you're going to continue to use the Sharpmaker, instead using waterstones, instead of following the "advised" angles, try the twenty degree setting on the knife. My guess is that you'll end up hitting the edge instead of the sides and you'll have better results and presumably a bit tougher edge. Again, I wouldn't start with the corners, but use the flats on the rods and use very little pressure. You just want to work the edge as if you're taking a microscopic thin slice from the rod. Just keep the blade square to the countertop and let the weight of the blade do the work. In this case, ignore the instructions that came with the sharpener and do what the knife requires not the other way around.

    My best advice is to get some waterstones and learn how to sharpen with them, but if you're going to use the Sharpmaker, you're going to have to adapt your approach to the demands of the knife.

  8. #28
    Senior Member zitangy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    some people say that Japanese knives you shld use a rod...

    My view... I am not saying that they are wrong.......its all about the grit on the rod. IF your last final grit is 10,000 grit and you hit on a rod that is rated say 800 grit, that will be your final edge.! no point lamenting that the silky feeling is gone!

    No matter how sharp your knife is after cutting adn hitting the board, first level of degradation is a fold/ burr. Either you straighten it out and thus leaving a wired edge which will eventyally break anyway OR cut/ break it off . IF it is the latter and the edge is still thin, a few additional strokes will further make the edge pointy as after it breaks off, i assume that it will be slightly rounded.

    At times yuo want to hit the edge on the rod so as to thin the edge to maintain the general thinness of the edge. failing which after a few session you get a thick edge .. naturally

    You are spot on " you're going to have to adapt your approach to the demands of the knife." I use the rod of appropriate grit mainly for deburring. I own a few rods, 400 diamond, abt 800 grit steel adn 1600 ceramic rod. Also own a "jewelstik" diamond rod.. 3 grits on 1 rod.

    have fun

  9. #29
    I would never use a SharpMaker on any Japanese knive, nor use a western steel on one. The edge is too thin and too brittle, you will simply snap it off, leaving a jagged, rough edge that will not cut.

    You can do the same thing by rocking it back and forth while chopping veggies on a wooden board, too -- NOT a standard western style knife.

    I will second the advise to get a set of waterstones and learn to use them if you want to use Japanese style knives, and spend some time learning to use them as they are designed. If you don't, you will be spending a very great deal of time sharpening them and much less using them, as that steel is VERY unforgiving of any mistakes. Razor sharp and a joy to use when sharp, but very easy to damage that thin, hard edge.

    Just the nature of the beast.


  10. #30
    I think the Soso has solved his problem, so let me go off in a tangent a bit.

    I haven't owned or used a steel in a couple of decades,
    but there is pretty popular information out there (or perhaps misinformation)
    that they don't remove any steel. Here's an excerpt from wiki:
    The naming is often a misnomer, because the traditional "honing steel" is not a hone at all,
    i.e. its function is to displace rather than to remove metal along the edge.
    Whatever the actual mechanism is, I remember my honing steel doing a fine job
    of increasing the cutting power of my dulling knives.
    In addition, since they don't actually remove any material,
    any damages resulting from appropriate uses should not be permanent.

    When I sharpened kataba-style knives for other,
    I'd occasionally give the advice like the following:
    Use honing steel to lightly realign their edges if they get dull.
    If honing steels don't fix it, bring it back to me.

    Was I just spewing nonsense?
    Has anyone done some serious damage to their kataba or noticed them getting more dull?

    I know it sounds ludicrous, but some people really just don't like sharpening things.
    (In the same way I don't like shopping.)
    And it seems like steel is just a nice way to maintain good sharp edge.

    Nevermind, I found the answer from another post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Martell View Post
    99% of grooved steels are junk, they can only (at best) rip the edge apart to offer some edge teeth to aid in cutting performance but when used on hard/thin edged Japanese knives the pressure exerted easily cause edge chipping.

    A really hard & smooth steel would be a decent option for these knives (something like the slick made by F. Dick) but this only works OK since you need to use it often and catch the edge before it degrades too far.

    A smooth ceramic rod, and to some extent a very fine diamond rod, is a compromise between those two above as they scrape the edge to provide some teeth but (in the case of the ceramic) it's more forgiving as to not chip the edge and both will work a lot longer than a smooth steel will.

    In all cases I find them inferior to a nice strop but that's my own personal tastes talking, there's really nothing wrong with using a steel/rod if it's used correctly.

    I should learn to use the search option before posting.

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