Nakiri? Shig vs. Watanabe vs Kato

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

kiefer

Active Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
41
Reaction score
0
I'm a home cook, interested in buying a kurouchi nakiri. I don't really need one, but have an itch that needs to be scratched. I already own a Carter SFGZ which is murderously thin, so I'm looking at beefier models.

Maxim has a few Shigefusas in stock. He also has a Kato on the website that looks rather thick, but is intriguing, given the rave reviews given to the Kato gyutos. Lastly, the Watanabe 180 pro nakiri has always been attractive. I once owned a Takeda nakiri, and regret selling it, so that is on the list as well.

So, what say you, experts of knife forums?

Thanks in advance for all your help.
 
I'm a home cook, interested in buying a kurouchi nakiri. I don't really need one, but have an itch that needs to be scratched. I already own a Carter SFGZ which is murderously thin, so I'm looking at beefier models.

Maxim has a few Shigefusas in stock. He also has a Kato on the website that looks rather thick, but is intriguing, given the rave reviews given to the Kato gyutos. Lastly, the Watanabe 180 pro nakiri has always been attractive. I once owned a Takeda nakiri, and regret selling it, so that is on the list as well.

So, what say you, experts of knife forums?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Maksim also added some itinomonn KU Nakiris which look nice. Not sure about the Kato Nakiris, but my Kato Gyuto which is much thicker at the spine cuts better than my Shig Gyuto. But for me there is something special about Shigefusa knives. They are my favourite.
 
I have the KU shig and I had the Nobuyasu that Maxim has on his site, so I really can't comment on a comparison with the ones you are talking about but I really like the shig. F&F is much better than the other one and it is a very thin knife with a distal taper. The KU finish is also very nice on the shigs; not as pockmarked as some KU finishes. Like Huw, I am partial to shigs. (It is hard to imagine the Kato gyutos cutting better than a shig, but now you have me intrigued.)
 
I have a Shig kurouchi nakiri that I bought from Maxim. It's a great knife that came razor sharp out of the box. I did get a chip near the tip at one point which I was able to smooth out with my stones. It hasn't happened again, but I understand that the HTs on shigs can vary and some are a bit brittle. If you like to chop a lot of veggies this would be a good choice IMHO.
 
I've Watanabe pro nakiri. it is little hefty with tall blade, thick spine & thin behind the edge blade geometry(which I like)......kinda like mini cleaver!! if you're Chinese cleaver kind of people, you'll love it. on the other handle, if you're fans of laser blade, you'll hate it! I love shig's kitaji & kasumi but not kurouchi finished......
 
Dont most Nakiri people prefer super thin blades? Atleast, thats what i would do, hypothetically.

that is why I sold all my Nakiri; but, keeping Watanabe one. it is unique than others & I'm Chinese cleaver kind of person:D
 
I don't want to turn this into a shig vs kato war, but I've owned a few shigs and gotten to play with a Kato 270 gyuto. My shig Kitaeji was on a different level than the kato. Grinds, thickness bte, and cutting performance where not even comparable on all but a few items. I understand that not all shigs or katos are created equal and there are probably a few that make it out of the shop that arnt up to standard, but IMO the shig is a more nuanced design and polished (literally and figuratively) finished product. If you like white and blue hitachi steels then the shig steel will feel related and familiar, but not the same. It's hard, and has OK edge retention: better than white but not as good as blue super or a tool steel.
The Kato has one of the weirdest feeling steels I've ever sharpened. It feels VERY hard and very wear resistant. It was tricky to sharpen, but not impossible. However, it was the first steel that I've sharpened in a long time that I failed to get a "why would you ever need it to be this sharp?" edge on it. It would easily push cut paper, slice paper towel and passed "functional" sharpness standards no problem, but I couldn't shave with it and touching the edge with my fingers was pretty unimpressive not scary. I dont want to over state my own skill, but this was the first knife out of dozens that posed such a sharpening challenge to me.

I currently own both a 180mm Takeda and a Shig Kitaeji nakiri. The Takea is amazing how thin it is and that its all the procduct of bada$$ forge work and only minimal grinding bte. It push cuts better than anything I've ever used outside of a cck that I thinned and polished about 2" up from the edge.
However, there are few knives that wow me out of the box quite like a shig.. certainly nothing outside of the custom world.
It's a very stout little blade, but it just feels soo niiiice. Fairly thin bte, but the heel is thick enough that it will wedge and snap the last few mm of a thick carrot if cutting sections >3mm or so thick.

I'm still trying to argue myself into keeping both of them, but if I do sell one, it will be the Takeda, which is weird because its arguably better at most of the tasks that youd typically use a nakir for. But the shig has my heart.

But, in answer to your question, I'd go with shig, not because it's better but just because its more different than what you have without being different in a bad way.
 
I'm going to throw a knife into the gears but as has been mentioned before some like thicker nakiris and mine slices through butternut squash lengthwise like they were butter. As a workhorse, and I mean workhorse (like a case of butternut a day) my Togiharu 150 Nakiri is a beast. Having never tried a laser nakiri I purchased one to fit my station prep needs and could not be happier. Maybe if I went the cleaver route I would change my tone but I know the majority opinion on VG-10, cleavers, and nakiris on this forum and I would recommend this knife. I can draw cut a butternut lengthwise with minimal effort and nothing sticks to it. I only sharpen it up to 5000k. Having tried the exact same Togiharu in 240 gyuto format I would not recommend it at all, but my nakiri is unbelievable.

Perhaps mine is an oddity but given how often I use it I sharpen it about once a month as opposed to once a week for my other knives. I finish all my knives on a suehiro 5k but the nakiri holds up 4x longer than my other knives. These being a thinned Hiro AS, a Yoshikane SKD, and a Hattori Forum knife. The only other knife I have that lasts that long with the same amount of use is my Martell Gyuto. I know these knives aren't quite in the same boat but I love this cheap VG-10 nakiri like some like their vintage Sabs.

I don't know why it holds up like it does given the abuse I give it. It is truly my beater knife but it is a masterpiece to me, even after 3 years of abuse.

It should be noted that Dave has had my Yoshikane and Forgecraft for the past few months which are the other contenders in my kit for the same tasks but I still prefer my Togi for a few case prep jobs.

Flame away.
 
I'm going to throw a knife into the gears but as has been mentioned before some like thicker nakiris and mine slices through butternut squash lengthwise like they were butter. As a workhorse, and I mean workhorse (like a case of butternut a day) my Togiharu 150 Nakiri is a beast. Having never tried a laser nakiri I purchased one to fit my station prep needs and could not be happier. Maybe if I went the cleaver route I would change my tone but I know the majority opinion on VG-10, cleavers, and nakiris on this forum and I would recommend this knife. I can draw cut a butternut lengthwise with minimal effort and nothing sticks to it. I only sharpen it up to 5000k. Having tried the exact same Togiharu in 240 gyuto format I would not recommend it at all, but my nakiri is unbelievable.

Perhaps mine is an oddity but given how often I use it I sharpen it about once a month as opposed to once a week for my other knives. I finish all my knives on a suehiro 5k but the nakiri holds up 4x longer than my other knives. These being a thinned Hiro AS, a Yoshikane SKD, and a Hattori Forum knife. The only other knife I have that lasts that long with the same amount of use is my Martell Gyuto. I know these knives aren't quite in the same boat but I love this cheap VG-10 nakiri like some like their vintage Sabs.

I don't know why it holds up like it does given the abuse I give it. It is truly my beater knife but it is a masterpiece to me, even after 3 years of abuse.

It should be noted that Dave has had my Yoshikane and Forgecraft for the past few months which are the other contenders in my kit for the same tasks but I still prefer my Togi for a few case prep jobs.

Flame away.

I don't think anyone could ever flame you for that. Sounds like you got quite the special little knife there. I wonder what would cause that vg10 to perform so much better than any other that you've tried (or that I have based on your description). I know that HT makes a HUGE difference, but the knives that you're comparing it too are from makers that are typically regarded as doing the best job with vg10 (hattori on the forum knife). Maybe there's a guy at the Togiharu factory that's got a magic touch, or maybe they ran out of vg10 the day they made yours and used aeb-l or r2 instead.
 
I haven't tried any of them, but a friend has a Kato nakiri which he says is good but not 'wow'.

That Kato was not from me, as i just send first Nakiris out today :D
Probably from Japan, witch is whole other animal then mine !
 
That Kato was not from me, as i just send first Nakiris out today :D
Probably from Japan, witch is whole other animal then mine !

IF it is not out of line, may I ask wherein lies the differences between the stock Nakiri from Japan and yours?

rgds
d
 
Better FF different geometry, different steel, Different stone finish and different shape :)
 
Thank you for all the replies thus far. They are really helpful.
 
I don't think anyone could ever flame you for that. Sounds like you got quite the special little knife there. I wonder what would cause that vg10 to perform so much better than any other that you've tried (or that I have based on your description). I know that HT makes a HUGE difference, but the knives that you're comparing it too are from makers that are typically regarded as doing the best job with vg10 (hattori on the forum knife). Maybe there's a guy at the Togiharu factory that's got a magic touch, or maybe they ran out of vg10 the day they made yours and used aeb-l or r2 instead.

I've considered this. It really is kind of remarkable. I think myself lucky. That knife was a spur of the moment add on to an order
 
This tread made me pull my own Shig from the block and start using it again. Very heavy duty knife as nakiri go. Strange as it may sound it has long been my favorite Dungeness crab shelling knife. Crack all the legs etc with the heavy spine of the knife and do the few cuts required with the edge.
My Shig is a great vegetable knife for our normal two person size meals. If I wasn't such a knife nut, switching blades just to try something new all the time, the Shig would be on my list of keepers for a more minimalist kitchen.
 
Another comment about my Shig. While I've been told on this forum that I shouldn't "drop" my wa handled knives into my wood block, the handle on my Shig nakiri came loose like most of my Carters, Wantanbe etc knives have in the past. I quickly noticed on this one I could reverse the D-handle to left hand! It may not be a perfect left-hand but it is a lot better than an all right-hand grip. There is now a bit of super glue holding it on the left hand bias.
 
That Kato was not from me, as i just send first Nakiris out today :D
Probably from Japan, witch is whole other animal then mine !

Maxim, if you have time...I love to hear your thought about shig vs. kato Nakiris! I think you are the only kkf member who able handle/play both Nakiris side-by-side.....
 
When I was looking to buy my first nakiri last year (this was before mayos were an option) I emailed maxim about it and he recommended the zensho nakiri over a KU shig. I went with his advice and haven't regretted it at all! Granted, I don't have a Whig nakiri to compare things to (yet) but I would certainly say that the zensho (the one made by Kunio Isikawa) is something else to consider.
 
Thanks again for all the input. I'm happy to say that I just ordered my first Shigefusa, the 180mm nakiri from Maksim.
Now the wait begins.
 
Maxim, if you have time...I love to hear your thought about shig vs. kato Nakiris! I think you are the only kkf member who able handle/play both Nakiris side-by-side.....

I too would love to see a head to head with the two Nakiris mentioned.
 
I don't want to turn this into a shig vs kato war, but I've owned a few shigs and gotten to play with a Kato 270 gyuto. My shig Kitaeji was on a different level than the kato. Grinds, thickness bte, and cutting performance where not even comparable on all but a few items. I understand that not all shigs or katos are created equal and there are probably a few that make it out of the shop that arnt up to standard, but IMO the shig is a more nuanced design and polished (literally and figuratively) finished product. If you like white and blue hitachi steels then the shig steel will feel related and familiar, but not the same. It's hard, and has OK edge retention: better than white but not as good as blue super or a tool steel.
The Kato has one of the weirdest feeling steels I've ever sharpened. It feels VERY hard and very wear resistant. It was tricky to sharpen, but not impossible. However, it was the first steel that I've sharpened in a long time that I failed to get a "why would you ever need it to be this sharp?" edge on it. It would easily push cut paper, slice paper towel and passed "functional" sharpness standards no problem, but I couldn't shave with it and touching the edge with my fingers was pretty unimpressive not scary. I dont want to over state my own skill, but this was the first knife out of dozens that posed such a sharpening challenge to me.

And that pretty much sums why I like this knife apart from how mine performs ;)

What I mean, is that imho the maker really shites on what you like,

You dont get it your way, if you want that, go to Burger King.

Its brittle and thats the way it is. Its brutal and thats the way it is.
This knife is not made to massage your ego but to challenge you. Isnt that all the fun theer is about a knife??

Same with steel, it is very hard and you have to adjust to the fact because the maker - I am solemnly hoping - will never do.

One of the sharpest wildest craziest edges Ive got, ever. Its not only about the way it feels to the touch, its about how eagerly it cuts.
I thought you could compare Masamotos edge to it, but after some recent sharpening, that holds no truth. I dont really know what to compare it to?

Makes me really really want another one!
 
Sorry Bienek, sir. Are you making reference to the Kato knife or the Shigefusa in your post?

And that pretty much sums why I like this knife apart from how mine performs ;)

What I mean, is that imho the maker really shites on what you like,

You dont get it your way, if you want that, go to Burger King.

Its brittle and thats the way it is. Its brutal and thats the way it is.
This knife is not made to massage your ego but to challenge you. Isnt that all the fun theer is about a knife??

Same with steel, it is very hard and you have to adjust to the fact because the maker - I am solemnly hoping - will never do.

One of the sharpest wildest craziest edges Ive got, ever. Its not only about the way it feels to the touch, its about how eagerly it cuts.
I thought you could compare Masamotos edge to it, but after some recent sharpening, that holds no truth. I dont really know what to compare it to?

Makes me really really want another one!
 
Sorry Bienek, sir. Are you making reference to the Kato knife or the Shigefusa in your post?

I was gonna ask the same question, LOL. He's talking about the Kato (I think).
 
Hah when I come to think about it I think it applies to both but yeah I talked about Kato.
 
Well i think that it is 2 very very different knives, even so they wight exactly the same Kato feel somehow more mighty when Shig is more delicate.
Shig FF is of coarse the best and very hard to beat by any makers. Katos steel is much harder and thats why it feels more stiffer. But Shig have taper that i like most.
Kato take better edge and hold it longer. But shig is easier to thin and sharpens quicker.

They both cut amazingly ! So its very hard to say witch is best even for me. If i should choose one i will choose both :O
 
Back
Top