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Thread: New Gyuto Advice Please.

  1. #21
    Senior Member Benuser's Avatar
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    I don't think so. Levelling the finger guard with a relief bevel would damage the stone, making grooves.
    If it was a carbon blade, coarse sandpaper would be an realistic option. The stainless is very abrasion resistant. It would take weeks rather than hours. You can't do a lot at once: a moment of inadvertance may seriously damage the blade.

  2. #22
    Senior Member DSChief's Avatar
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    you can knock down the bolster with a dremel using 1/2 in sanding bands, taking an inch or so down to be flush with the blade. then you can lay
    the whole length of the knife flat on the stone to thin . I'm in the process of doing this to a 12" 4 star Sab & a 10" Dexter Russell.
    a few more sessions on the stones to set a good edge then some 1000 & 1500 grit Wet/Dry sanding to pretty them up again.



  3. #23
    Senior Member rdpx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benuser View Post
    I don't think so. Levelling the finger guard with a relief bevel would damage the stone, making grooves.
    If it was a carbon blade, coarse sandpaper would be an realistic option. The stainless is very abrasion resistant. It would take weeks rather than hours. You can't do a lot at once: a moment of inadvertance may seriously damage the blade.
    I had no problems sharpening my old Sabatier with an identical bolster, though I left about 1cm from the heel untouched.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtle70 View Post
    No problem.

    I'm from the UK but back in 90/91 i was working in the US and my whole knife roll was stolen from the locker room of the hotel i was working in and this was one of the knives i bought to replace them. I don't remember if it was American or a European brand but it lasted pretty well. It's got to a point now though where it just won't take any sort of edge and while i'm sure something could be done to revive it i decided i just fancy something new.
    When you say "it won't take any sort of edge", are you talking about using sharpening stones or a steel?

    If that's the knife in its current state, it looks like the knife has never seen stones. The grinding on the finger guard appears to be original - it looks like it's got the original taper with no rough grind marks. The edge also goes right to the bottom of the finger guard. If this knife had been sharpened previously without grinding down the finger guard, the edge would rise up from the bottom of the finger guard. That's not the case here.

    Also, if that knife had been sharpened previously, the finger guard would have had to been ground down somewhere, and the shape would not be the way it is now. A good sharpener would have ground down the finger guard at an angle so it's tapered from very thin at the edge so you could do multiple sharpenings without having to regrind the finger guard. But that finger guard looks like it hasn't been touched. However, the finger guard will likely have to be ground down if this knife is sharpened because the fatigued steel may literally just chip off the edge if you sharpen it on stones in my experience.

    The bevel looks ok. The profile hasn't been messed with and looks close to original. So, it likely needs only a little thinning as well because it simply hasn't been sharpened much, if at all.

    And, no, I wouldn't try grinding down a finger guard on regular stones. A diamond plate, yes; but stones, you'll likely (1) groove the crap out of a coarse stone if you don't use the entire surface, and (2) it'll take forever. There's a lot of steel there. I've partially ground down a finger guard on an Atoma 140. Even then, it still takes a long time.

    If you don't want to sharpen it yourself on stones, take it to someone who will and is reputable. That knife looks fine to me. It just needs a spa treatment.
    Michael
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSChief View Post
    you can knock down the bolster with a dremel using 1/2 in sanding bands, taking an inch or so down to be flush with the blade. then you can lay
    the whole length of the knife flat on the stone to thin . I'm in the process of doing this to a 12" 4 star Sab & a 10" Dexter Russell.
    a few more sessions on the stones to set a good edge then some 1000 & 1500 grit Wet/Dry sanding to pretty them up again.


    Compare these pictures to the picture the OP or Thread Starter posted. The finger guards on these knives show obvious grinding. The OP/Thread Starter's doesn't if the picture he provided is of the knife in its current state.
    Michael
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  6. #26
    Senior Member rdpx's Avatar
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    Is everyone really trying to say that it is not possible to sharpen a knife with a finger guard to a usable standard without grinding off the finger guard? I might be misinterpreting, but that seems to be the general tone I am getting here.

    I just don't believe this at all. You can't go RIGHT DOWN to the heel, which is admittedly not ideal, especially when held to the standards of many on here, but you can certainly sharpen the rest of the knife with no problems at all.

    OP is going to be struck dumb by a japanese edge after 20 years of sharpening with a steel, if that is what has been happening! Kitchen Joy awaits you, subtle70!!!


  7. #27
    Senior Member chinacats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdpx View Post
    Is everyone really trying to say that it is not possible to sharpen a knife with a finger guard to a usable standard without grinding off the finger guard? I might be misinterpreting, but that seems to be the general tone I am getting here.

    I just don't believe this at all. You can't go RIGHT DOWN to the heel, which is admittedly not ideal, especially when held to the standards of many on here, but you can certainly sharpen the rest of the knife with no problems at all.

    OP is going to be struck dumb by a japanese edge after 20 years of sharpening with a steel, if that is what has been happening! Kitchen Joy awaits you, subtle70!!!

    The problem becomes that the knife no longer can be used in the flat section because it won't be able to make flush contact with the board and you get accordion cuts. The edge will have a frown when viewed from the side profile.

    To the OP, beautiful knife. You should buy a waterstone with your new purchase as whatever you buy will likely not respond so well to a steel hone which I suspect is what you've been using.

    Cheers!
    one man gathers what another man spills...

  8. #28
    Senior Member rdpx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinacats View Post
    The problem becomes that the knife no longer can be used in the flat section because it won't be able to make flush contact with the board and you get accordion cuts. The edge will have a frown when viewed from the side profile.
    I can see how that might become a problem, but it has not happened yet with my Sabatier as it has a curve up to the heel like in the OPs photo. Looks to me like that could be sharpened a good few times before the finger guard starts becoming an issue.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinacats View Post
    The problem becomes that the knife no longer can be used in the flat section because it won't be able to make flush contact with the board and you get accordion cuts. The edge will have a frown when viewed from the side profile.

    To the OP, beautiful knife. You should buy a waterstone with your new purchase as whatever you buy will likely not respond so well to a steel hone which I suspect is what you've been using.

    Cheers!
    +1

    This is exactly what happens. The edge becomes concave right before the finger guard.

    Sharpen your Sab a few times, then give the finger guard a go on your stones, and then tell us how it goes. Like I said, I've personally tried grinding finger guards (on stainless Henckels and a carbon Sabatier) on an Atoma which is 140 and diamond. It can be done, but it's no fun, takes at least 30 minutes (tapering the sides of the finger guards requires the most amount of work) and will significantly shorten the life of the Atoma. And, I disagree with Benuser on this. Neither carbon nor stainless finger guards should be ground down on a stone. It's way too time consuming to do this right on a stone. (If you want to half-ass it and just grind the bottom of the finger guard, then it won't take much time.)

    And, depending on how fatigued the steel is, you may only get one sharpening out of it before you have to grind the finger guard. I sharpened about a dozen Henckels that hadn't been sharpened in probably a decade. The finger guard had to be ground down twice because the edge just crumbled on a King 1200 stone. I lost at least 1 mm along the edge. On a new knife, if you lose 2 mm, it's time to grind the finger guard.
    Michael
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  10. #30
    Senior Member rdpx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhlee View Post
    And, I disagree with Benuser on this. Neither carbon nor stainless finger guards should be ground down on a stone.
    I think you meant that you agree with Benuser on that?

    Finger guard or not, it seems like that knife is perhaps an ideal one to practise using stones with, no? [I am talking about learning the technique/motion here]

    ~ Robert

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