Henckels, Wusthof, Thiers-Issard or Global as the kitchen knife?

Hello guys,
I am looking for a Top notch knife set, as a good addition to a kitchen.
I did some research on popular knife makers, and they are: J.A. Henckels (Germany), WUSTHOF, Thiers-Issard, and Global (Japan)

So far I am looking at Henckels Pro-S 8(set), what you guys think?

http://budk.com/Knives/Henckels-Pro-S-8-Piece-Block-Set?
Which Hencheks are better Pro-S or Five star?
OR If I am missing something, which of the Henckels series are the best?


But again, I really want a VERY (top notch) set aprox 5-10 knifes.
Out of Henckels (Germany), WUSTHOF (germany), Thiers-Issard (france), and Global (Japan)
Which of these brands make THE BEST knifes, I mean top #1
as well suggest some models, if I am missing something, please add.

Highly appreciate your help,

may be the new Henkels Bob Kramer?
but you have to take care of the knife because it is carbon.

Get a set of henckels miyabi knives. The steel is not too hard so they won't chip and the handles and blade shapes are excellent.

henckels miyabi knives look very Nice,
but how are Pro-S Series?
Are they good? better or worth than henckels miyabi ?

Henckels , Wusthof, TI (Sabatier, france), or Global (japan) ?

What sort of cooking will these knives be used for? How much experience does the cook have?

Cooking experince about 7 years.
I want somethign really good, that will last me a life time.

I love it when a question starts on which mass production knives to get, it moves to the higher end of the spectrum like miyabi, then people will chip in why henckles, you get more value out of such and such *** knife, and another convert is born!

:razz:

Next up, try checking out the carbonext range at japanesechefknives.com

The henckels 5 star and pro s are virtually the same knives. They have the exact same blade with different handles.
The 5 star series has been discontinued, so great deals can be had, but only if you go that route.
The blades are decent steel, but very soft compared to what we like over here (56hrc, or so). They respond well to steeling because of the softer steel, but the bolsters get in the way when sharpening. They will eventually have to be filed down to allow for metal loss on the edge, due to sharpening.
I also have experience with the Thiers-Issard, and they are VERY nice knives, but are a different breed compared to our preferred j-knives. One very nice attribute on the TI knives is the relieved bolster, and an option with no "figure guard" at all. The steel, however is much like henckels knives, and again responds very well to steeling. I love the TI looks and handles, but everything you mentioned is well finished.
If I had to choose between your options, I'd go TI.
HOWEVER, j-knives are, quite honestly nicer than anything you mentioned here.

You are forgetting the other direction these thread often go -- advising 'down' to Forschners.

With that said, do we have a sticky like Adam's at Knife Forums that solicits basic info so that feedback can be more focused/better? The KF one was rather extensive IMO and also a bit confusing to newbies, but a shortened/simpler version might be nice.

Just for reference, here are the questions from KF.


What are you looking for in your new knife?
What knife are you currently using that looking to replace or partner with?
What other knives do you own/use for tasks that you're looking to use the new knife for?
How do you grip the knife?
Do you prefer the knife balanced more handle heavy or blade heavy?
Do like a tall or short blade?
Do want it thin-thin, heavier build, or a some description of something in between?
Do you prefer a flatter edge or more curvy?
Do you like the blade to 'belly up' or flat, parellel with the handle?
What handle shape would you like?
What handle materials are you looking for?
What budget constraints do you have?
What sharpening equipment do you have?
What other special features/accessories would you like?

k.

First of all, you do not need a set. You only need 2 or 3 knives. A chef knife, a petty/utility knife, and a bread knife if you cut a lot hard crusty breads. All the German knives use the same or similar steel as a 25 dollar Forschner, so the extra money is for aesthetics alone since the Forshners are thinner and perform better.

If you are dead set on getting a knife available at the big cooking stores; then I would go with the Henkel miyabi fusions sold at Sur La Table. They have very good steel and are pretty also.

I forgot to say welcome to the board.

If you know what is good for your wallet, I would run away and never come back. Its very dangerous around here. The natives consider a good 100-200 dollar knife a gateway drug. We also like to debate if it reasonable to spend 8 thousand dollars on one knife. If you do decide to stick around, I promise you will learn something new almost everyday. I've been around good kitchen knives for over 5 years and I'm still learning from this group.

welcome!

dont.
buy.
a set.



If you are like most set buyers, you'll just be buying a really expensive petty with a large foot print.

Tell us your budget, what you have and what you do and dont like about them.

I second the opinion that J-knives are much nicer then any of the above mentioned brands. I went from using Henckels to using J-knives and find that the edge retention of the J-knives are better then that of henckels. I do not recommend getting a set. Individually getting each knife may cost slightly more but if you get each and every knife in the set but most of the time, you do not need every knife in the set. What you would need is probably a chefs knife/gyuto, a parer/petty, slicer/sujihiki, boning/fillet, maybe a meat fork and a pair of kitchen shears. That's the usual arsenal of a professional kitchen, and if you are gonna be using it at home, I doubt that you will be using everything in there.

Any knife will last pretty much a good 5-10 years depending on how you treat it. A nice, well made knife will last even longer then that. 'Lasting a lifetime' is kinda subjective. It all comes down to how you care for your knives. If budget is no issue, I'd seriously consider a few custom knives. Otherwise check out the reviews of the Japanese knives here. Between the brands that you have chosen, I'd go for a Henckels Miyabi line over any of the rest.

I believe the response is overwhelming in one direction: which is don't buy a set.

The point is also cost vs quality. Yes you do get perceived savings if you buy a set, but the 'savings' are spread over a number of knives that won't get used. Also, even after the savings, each knife taken on its own still costs $X, and that $X can be better utilised.

Leading to the other point is: for the individual cost of the blades in the set, there are typically better options for the same money that a)are higher quality b)are more aesthetically pleasing or any combination of the two. At least in the eyes of the people on the forum.

I never thought I could get better quality for less or the same money, but I learned quickly from this forum that this happens all the time.

Budget up to $500
So i thought of a small set 6-8 razors.
Not talking about these 18-22 knife ones that Henckels offers.

How are Wusthof comparing to Henckels ?

6 of one, half a dozen of the other

Although, I read that Wusthof is now hardening their blades to 58hrc...
It's still the same steel, though, so who knows how it will respond to the extra hardness.

You guys mentioned Carbonext, Forschner; what about Tojiro DP? Where's the love? I thought this was the standard starter...

You should have bought the miyabi's and run away pretending you'd never heard of this place. The upsellers have arrived...

Silverman said:

How are Wusthof comparing to Henckels ?

Click to expand...

Compared to the miyabis, not even close. Compared to the other lines, they are all worse than a 25 dollar Forschner in terms of pure cutting performance.

tim0mit said:

You should have bought the miyabi's and run away pretending you'd never heard of this place. The upsellers have arrived...

Click to expand...

Hahaha... as if we couldn't see this happening.

Actually you can't get 6-8 Miyabis with $500. I'll leave it to the more seasoned to recommend a composite set of 6 knives that can get within this budget.

I might try:
Tojiro DP honesuki 80
Carbonext 240 Gyuto & 270 Suji 128 & 139
Forschner paring $30(?)
Fujiwara 120 petty $35
Any $15 breadknife

That leaves around $70 to upgrade any of the above to a better knife. Or to add 1-2 more if you have need of something else.

Tristan said:

Hahaha... as if we couldn't see this happening.

Actually you can't get 6-8 Miyabis with $500. I'll leave it to the more seasoned to recommend a composite set of 6 knives that can get within this budget.

I might try:
Tojiro DP honesuki 80
Carbonext 240 Gyuto & 270 Suji 128 & 139
Forschner paring $30(?)
Fujiwara 120 petty $35
Any $15 breadknife

That leaves around $70 to upgrade any of the above to a better knife. Or to add 1-2 more if you have need of something else.

Click to expand...

For paring, just get any knife. I'm using my 120mm petty of paring jobs. And the Victorinox paring is about $6 if you seriously want/need one.
So that's $6 for a paring
A honesuki would do well if you like that kind of blade geometry. Otherwise, if you prefer a western boning/fillet knife, again a Victorinox/Forshner. Again, a longer petty would also do for boning/fillet.
That's $30 if you go for the Western, $80~$100 for the honesuki
Petty, go Fujiwara FKM $35
Gyuto/Chef's are your do all and a staple in the kitchen.
I'd go for a Hiromoto AS at $122 for a 210mm or a $145 for a 240mm
Otherwise, the CN is a pretty good choice at $128 for a 240mm
If you go for a 240mm chefs/gyuto, you may want to hold of on the sujihiki/slicer for a while. Otherwise, again a CN or a Hiro AS.
And here again, you want to look at the length.
A CN 270mm would cost $139, a 300mm - $154.
Hiro AS would set you back $201 for a 300mm.
And for the bread knife, I agree on a cheap one but test the blade for flex. You wouldn't want a wobbly blade. I'd say about $20 or so.

So that gets you to (I'm using the upper limit here) about $507.

And anyway, spending that much $$ won't ensure that your knives last unless you take care of them. So I'd rather get the necessary stuff like the gyuto, petty and bread knife and spend some cash on a combination stone for some edge maintainence. Otherwise, you can always send them to Dave

10 years ago I made a similar choice, but without the help of the forums and I just wanted a chef, petty, boning, parer. I went with global and they kept me happy for about 7 years. If I were you and doing it again, I'd spend 4-450 on a decent gyuto that will amaze you, and 50-100 on forschners. Then I'd learn to sharpen.....
This approach will only work if you're someone who takes care of their kit and isn't predisposed to 'drawer queening' but you'll use that gyuto for at least 80% of what you do in the kitchen, so IMHO deserves the same proportion of budget
As ever, just my thoughts, there are people here with more experience who have handled many more knives, the more info you give the forum in terms of what you have already, what you cook, which of your current knives you use the most, the more tailored the responses will be

4-450 would get you more then decent gyutos haha.

ahhh, so much to learn...you've come to the right place.

I will almost guarantee if you stick around here for just a few months, you'll probably forget all about the European brands, unless you are looking for a beater.

Here are my recommendations for you, based on what I think you are looking for.
- 240mm Fujiwara FKM gyuto (~$80)
- 150mm Fujiwara FKM petty (~$40)
- MAC 10.5" bread knife (~$80)
- Bester 1200 sharpening stone (~$50)
- End grain wood cutting board (~$80-$200+) or a Sani-Tuff rubber board (~$30-60)
with money left over in case you want something else

Cadillac J said:

ahhh, so much to learn...you've come to the right place.

I will almost guarantee if you stick around here for just a few months, you'll probably forget all about the European brands, unless you are looking for a beater.

Here are my recommendations for you, based on what I think you are looking for.
- 240mm Fujiwara FKM gyuto (~$80)
- 150mm Fujiwara FKM petty (~$40)
- MAC 10.5" bread knife (~$80)
- Bester 1200 sharpening stone (~$50)
- End grain wood cutting board (~$80-$200+) or a Sani-Tuff rubber board (~$30-60)
with money left over in case you want something else

Click to expand...

Hmm I kinda disagree on spending $80 on a bread knife but the rest of the stuff are great starting out. Not that I'm against it or anything but I don't see a need for an expensive bread knife. I would really like to hear the reason behind it No offence intended

MadMel said:

Hmm I kinda disagree on spending $80 on a bread knife but the rest of the stuff are great starting out. Not that I'm against it or anything but I don't see a need for an expensive bread knife. I would really like to hear the reason behind it No offence intended

Click to expand...

$80. is a lot to spend on a bread knife.Victirinox/Forschner makes a solid bread knife for around $15-$20.If it's for work,why bother if it''s for home use and you want a nicer looking bread knife..maybe

And I agree that the bulk of the $$$ should be spent on a really good gyuto,maybe not $400.-$450 out of a $500 budget

Silverman said:

How are Wusthof comparing to Henckels ?

Click to expand...

I don't know how things have changed in the last 10+ years, but back in they day the answer to Henkels vs. Wusthof was Messermeister. ( I thinkl the Meridian line) IIRC they were thinner than the standard euro knife and had the half-bolster.

Another option in your price range if you are stuck on the 'block & set' route is Shun...

Since everybody else is (correctly) banging on the 'just say no' to the set theme, I'll add that I really could live very easily with 3 knives: Chef's, Slicer, and Bread

MadMel said:

Hmm I kinda disagree on spending $80 on a bread knife but the rest of the stuff are great starting out. Not that I'm against it or anything but I don't see a need for an expensive bread knife. I would really like to hear the reason behind it No offence intended

Click to expand...

I normally don't even recommend a bread knife, but because he was looking for a 'set' originally that would last a long time, I was trying to cover the most functional ground. He said he wanted 'top notch' knives, and the MAC is one of the best breads out there (I also don't consider $80 to be that much).

You might also see that I didn't recommend a $200+ gyuto, even though he is looking for 'top notch'. This is because the Fujiwaras will be a huge leap in performance compared to brands he listed, while having good fit/finish, easily adaptable western handles, and steel that is tougher than some of the harder/brittle stuff out there--so no chipping issues, could use a ceramic/borosilicate steel if he wanted, and even a poly boards wouldn't be too bad. Perfect transition for someone just getting into Japanese knives IMO.