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Thread: Heiji spa day

  1. #21
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squilliam View Post
    Bending the bevel will give you a convex ground knife like most other knives, to some extent. It will cut better because there are no shoulders. However it's more difficult to thin and may have more stiction.
    blending the bevel won't do much on a Heiji, due to how tall the bevels are. with a knife with shorter bevels, sure.



    Edipis, I understand hamaguri to refer to a closed clam. Convex coming to a point from both sides. Single bevel hamaguri is like half a clam.
    maybe, but a convexed single bevel knife looks a lot more like half a clamshell than a double beveled knife convexed on both sides looks like a closed clam, in my opinion.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdipisReks View Post
    the Heiji gyutos don't have a shinogi the same way a yanagi does. it's pretty crisp as seen here, but it has more blend. the trick is to only grind below the line.
    Cool i follow the same approach with my KU knives which seem to have a similar style of grind, and Carter SFGZ. Where the top section of Heiji's looks to have been ground i was wondering if there was any smoothing done of the transition. I'm a fan of knives ground like this as it makes thinning more of a defined process as you have a bevel to work off rather than just going at it on the sides of the knife, and then refinishing.

  3. #23
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TB_London View Post
    Cool i follow the same approach with my KU knives which seem to have a similar style of grind, and Carter SFGZ. Where the top section of Heiji's looks to have been ground i was wondering if there was any smoothing done of the transition. I'm a fan of knives ground like this as it makes thinning more of a defined process as you have a bevel to work off rather than just going at it on the sides of the knife, and then refinishing.
    it's definitely more like a single bevel than not, in terms of the grind, and pretty much works as you describe. the angle between the bevel and the flats isn't quite as pronounced as on a yanagi, though, so there is more tendency for grind to move higher up than you want it to, especially with muddy stones. it's easy to clean that up with finger stones (if it's minor), or sandpaper on a sanding block, if it's more severe.

  4. #24
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    For what it's worth, my understanding is a tiny bit of convexity goes a long way. If you're thinning manually, you'll generally get enough of it on the secondary bevel whether you mean to put it there or not. The transition is fairly crisp. If you're okay with committing mortal sin, you can ease your transition if you want. The more you ease, the more it will behave like knives that are ground without a secondary bevel. You might as well buy something else (Gengetsu for example ). Like single bevel knives, after you get your secondary bevel right, it's generally wise to grind a tiny, thicker, primary bevel on it or the edge will tend to crumble. I put a single "micro" bevel on the right side at 15-20 deg.

  5. #25
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    yep.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by EdipisReks View Post
    What you are describing is a messed up Heiji, as the angle difference is part of what makes them so resistant to stickage: a nice big thin piece of potato can stick to the bevel, and it can stick to the flat, but it has a hard time sticking to both at the same time.
    Nicely put, ER.

    And, nice job on the knives. Great contrast between the primary and secondary bevel. They look so much like single bevel knives.
    Michael
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  7. #27
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhlee View Post
    Nicely put, ER.

    And, nice job on the knives. Great contrast between the primary and secondary bevel. They look so much like single bevel knives.
    thanks! it's all in the King 800.

  8. #28
    Senior Member mpukas's Avatar
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    Nice post, ER. I agree w/ everything that's been said here. I don't have much to add to...

    Jon has told me that w/ a crisp shinogi line, stiction is minimized, just as you described. The less crisp, the more food will stick.

    Youíve done a nice job keeping the shinogi line crisp, especially at the tip. Jon has also pointed out to me that on a knife like a Heiji gyuto, the transition isnít between blade face and secondary bevel isnít quite as clearly defined as in a true single bevel knife, so these knives are tricky to sharpen properly and maintain that crisp shinogi.

    Honestly, I was hoping youíd be able to post some vid footage of how you do the secondary bevel, especially at the tip. I botched mine up pretty badly, and since Jon fixed it Iíve been scared to go at it again. Iíve been practicing a little on some cheaper knives, but wonít know how much better Iíve gotten until I try the Heiji again.

    Just for folks to know, I messed mine up by using too much pressure; not maintaining a consistent angle which blurred the shinogi; used to much pressure on my handle-holding hand (I switch hands always have the edge facing me) which caused an over-grind at the heel; lifted the handle too high while using too much pressure at the tip which caused the tip to crumble and break off; over-rotated at the shinogi line at the curve towards the tip which again caused a blurring of the shinogi and made a lot of scratches on the blade face.

    I really didnít realize how thin and delicate the edges and especially the tip of knives like these are. And also, the angles are VERY low and the transition between primary and secondary bevels is very slight. Jon measured the angles for me on a new knife, and the primary bevel is around 5d and the secondary is around 6d. So the included angle of the cutting edge is around 10d total, with only a 1d difference between primary and secondary. Lessons learned.
    Shibui - simplicity devoid of unnecessary elements

  9. #29
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    Are those semi stainless? I love my semi stainless santoku and I was thinking in getting a 240 gyuto also in semi stainless, but it seems that nakaya only makes them in Swedish steel.

  10. #30
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    This thread makes me want a Heiji. Looks great ER.

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