Ittosai / Tosagata ?

[festally]

Hi guys.

I’ve always wanted to try a kurouchi finished knife and since I need some gardening stuff from either Hida tools or JWW, figured this would be a good time to try cheap one. From what I’ve read, both have the makings (ie. inexpensive, heavy and thick) of a heavy duty knife; which for me means infrequent tasks like cutting through chicken bones (spine, rib bones), misc. hard / dense things (cheeses, rutabaga, frozen foods), separating bbq ribs and lobsters (once in a blue moon). I’m eyeballing the ittosai - funayaki or tosagata Atsu deba, but I’m concerned about their hrc and thickness.

1) Would their 61+ hrc be too brittle / prone to chipping for cutting chicken bones?
2) Which knife…the funayaki (5mm spine) or deba (10mm spine) or other type would be best for the above tasks?

Thanks in advance.

[tk59]

1) Would their 61+ hrc be too brittle / prone to chipping for cutting chicken bones?
2) Which knife…the funayaki (5mm spine) or deba (10mm spine) or other type would be best for the above tasks?

You shouldn't have problems with chicken bones as long as they are thick enough at and behind the edge. The steel isn't that brittle at 61 hrc. I don't think the spine thickness really matters too much. 10 mm is getting into hatchet territory, imo.

[festally]

Yeah, that 10mm thickness seems abit much. Would a 61+ hrc blade require more thickness behind the edge than something in the 55-ish range to cut a chicken bone without damage and without generating alot of bone splinters? I had to thin my med-weight chinese cleaver substantially to get a clean cut.

[tk59]

If you aren't getting a lot of deformation with your cleaver, I would guess your technique is good enough to use a somewhat thinner 61 hrc edge without much deformation or cracking, etc. A lot has to do with how much twisting and impact goes into the cut.

[heirkb]

I just bought a Tosagata a few days ago and the cladding was totally uneven. It goes down all the way to the edge on one side of the knife, which is a bit strange. Not sure what I'll do about that. I bought it just to use as a test knife to get a feel for some stones' qualities, so it's not that big a deal in my case. It might be in yours, but I'm not sure.

Just to add, if anyone knows more about this, please post it. I'm a newb, so I'm not basing my evaluation on a ton of experience. I was just pretty sure that cladding is supposed to be close to even.

[Mattias504]

Dude, I have that Ittosai funayuki and its a monster. Its not gonna chip on most daily kitchen tasks. I actually gave it to my mom and she uses the hell out of it. Never had to fix a chip.

[mikemac]

I had the Atsu Tasagata Deba a few years back...can get very sharp, but is also very thick. Suprisingly, not very useful for me for the purposes you've mentioned. In the end it stayed in the drawer, which made it suprising when it came out one day with a suprisingly large chunk of the tip missing. Suprising because it really hadn't been used. To their credit, JWW took it back and gave me a credit.

If you're looking for a reasonably value priced kurouchi knife for somewhat rougher use...and since we're talking about him...a few veterans have had really positive comments about Watanabe's Kaibou Santoku

[festally]

Tk59, My ability to cut through chicken bones with a thinner edge is more about me avoiding the harder leg and thigh bones than my skills. The spine and ribs are relatively soft and easily cut or crushed. I have to use a thinner edge to avoid crushing the bones (generating a lot of bone splinters and shards is not good for cutting chickens “asian style”), but the edge doesn’t last. I do notice more splintering as I go along and have to re-sharpen afterwards.

Heirkb, I’m not sure why it’s clad like that, but the cladded knives that I’ve seen are fairly even on both sides of the blade.

Mattais504, I likely go for funayaki as it appears to be thick enough to handle light butchering, yet thin enough for hard veggies. What length did you have and what did you move on to afterwards?

Mikemac, I’ll pass on the deba. I think it will be too thick, prone to hard veggie wedgies and already have a heavy western cleaver (collecting dust somewhere) for heavy hacking. The Watanabe's Kaibou Santoku looks great, but it’s too much for now.

[Mattias504]

I have the 210mm Ittosai funayuki. I just moved on/continued with gyutos and the like. It is a great knife and suitable for almost all tasks but a bit thick and some wedging does happen with denser foods. Great knife though. Can really handle some abuse.

[apicius9]

I won't swear to it, but I think I have one of these funayukis somewhere in a box. If you can live with a used one, shoot me a PM.

Stefan