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Question on AEB-L (Artifex) in sharpening and edge retention [vs Forschner] - Page 2
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Thread: Question on AEB-L (Artifex) in sharpening and edge retention [vs Forschner]

  1. #11
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    how about we help the guy first?

  2. #12
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    "if you want performance (aside from lobster splitting performance - you've already got that covered) look at almost anything else talked about here."

    That's hilarious, Dave, but the poor soul inquiring has no idea of the histories here.

    My dear GCconcept, you've been duped. What you hoped to get--a high performing knife at a bargain price--does not exist. Pay the appropriate dues and get what's needed here. Check this forum or FF for "first knives for commercial/pro use" and see what the archieves hold for you. I think you'll find things like Carbonext coming up consistently. Get one. They won't let you down.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phip View Post
    "if you want performance (aside from lobster splitting performance - you've already got that covered) look at almost anything else talked about here."

    That's hilarious, Dave, but the poor soul inquiring has no idea of the histories here.

    My dear GCconcept, you've been duped. What you hoped to get--a high performing knife at a bargain price--does not exist. Pay the appropriate dues and get what's needed here. Check this forum or FF for "first knives for commercial/pro use" and see what the archieves hold for you. I think you'll find things like Carbonext coming up consistently. Get one. They won't let you down.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, I take it that the Artifex has a convex grind at the primary cutting edge from my brief web research. I also feel that I have an extremely slow cutting stone. With that combination, I think I am sharpening with a flat grind and not hitting the edge. I plan on purchasing the Bester/Rika combo, thin down the blade, and put a flat grind on the edge at 15 degrees (60/40 asymmetry) and go on from there.

    Phip, I have done my research on high performing knife at bargain price, and it did come down to between the Artifex and Carbonext. However, on another forum, it was recommended to me to get the Artifex due to the better F&F and ready-to-cut profile compared to the Carbonext, which needed to be reprofiled and sharpened. I also learned that the Artifex carried the French Sabatier geometry profile, which I was very interested in trying. Finally, given that I was still a beginner sharpener (I have seen many sharpening videos on Youtube, examples: Mark Richmond, Dave Martell, Murray Carter, Jon Broida), Artifex made the most sense and was also at a lower price.

    Anyone know know how AEB-L compares to Carbonext in terms of edge taking and edge retention? I was never able to find the answer to that.

    "Keep in mind that this knife will never perform as a thin knife will, if you want performance (aside from lobster splitting performance - you've already got that covered) look at almost anything else talked about here."
    Dave, what do you mean by performance compared to a thin knife? Like laser thin or Masamoto KS (or typical Japanese knife) thin.
    Also looking at specs, the Masamoto KS wa-gyuto seems to have the same spine thickness, but taller blade. Just by profile, is it just because the blade is thinner at the cutting edge that it would perform better?

  4. #14
    AEB-L or any steel for that matter is only relevant if the person doing the ht/tempering knows what they are doing. Done by small makers one blade at the time it can be a great steel--as someone mentioned recently though it is probably not a very good steel for mass production. The other forum steered you wrong my friend--so sorry. Sabatier profile is copied by many makers and they each have their own interpretation of it. You'll find something you like but as said above, you get what you pay for...

    Again, the same steel produced by different makers will act very different. Buying from a trusted maker is so much more important than buying any specific steel. Profile is a different story, you must find one that you like. Poor geometry and likely poor h/t are more of what you are dealing with here.

    Cheers
    one man gathers what another man spills...

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GConcept999 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, I take it that the Artifex has a convex grind at the primary cutting edge from my brief web research.
    The cutting edge of the Artifex is not convex, it is 'v'-shaped. The grind of the blade face is slightly convexed.

    I also feel that I have an extremely slow cutting stone. With that combination, I think I am sharpening with a flat grind and not hitting the edge.
    Paint the edge with a Magic Marker and use a loupe to see if you are hitting it when you sharpen.

    I plan on purchasing the Bester/Rika combo, thin down the blade, and put a flat grind on the edge at 15 degrees (60/40 asymmetry) and go on from there.
    Getting a better set of stones is a good idea. If you intend to thin the knife behind the edge, get the Beston 500 as well. You will spend a lot of time and effort trying to thin with a Bester 1200.

    As far as edge retention is concerned, you may not be removing the burr entirely, and the resulting wire edge may be the cause of your edge retention issue. Try drawing the edge through a cork, hard felt or even a block of soft wood to remove the burr.

    Rick

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by GConcept999 View Post
    "Keep in mind that this knife will never perform as a thin knife will, if you want performance (aside from lobster splitting performance - you've already got that covered) look at almost anything else talked about here."
    Dave, what do you mean by performance compared to a thin knife? Like laser thin or Masamoto KS (or typical Japanese knife) thin.
    Also looking at specs, the Masamoto KS wa-gyuto seems to have the same spine thickness, but taller blade. Just by profile, is it just because the blade is thinner at the cutting edge that it would perform better?

    I mean almost any gytuo that is talked about here regularly (like the Carbonext that you were unfortunately advised against buying) will perform almost all tasks better than the Artifex will and that's because the Artifex is super thick.

    Also, you mentioned about getting the Bester 1200x/Suehiro Rika 5k combo, I'm going to say that the Bester 1200x (while a stone I love) won't do squat for this knife, you're going to need some serious cutting power to get this worked out. I'll leave the specific stone recommendations to others, I just wanted to note that the 1200x isn't going to cut it here.

  7. #17
    Senior Member stevenStefano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GConcept999 View Post
    Phip, I have done my research on high performing knife at bargain price, and it did come down to between the Artifex and Carbonext. However, on another forum, it was recommended to me to get the Artifex due to the better F&F and ready-to-cut profile compared to the Carbonext, which needed to be reprofiled and sharpened.
    Was this on the CKTG forum? If so that's basically lies and it makes me pretty angry. The Carbonext has a poor OOTB edge but it doesn't need reprofiled and the fit and finish is great for the price. In terms of edge retention between the Carbonext and AEB-L I think they will be fairly similar. AEB-L is common but not all of it is equal, some is great, some is poor. Comparing a Carbonext to the Artifex, the Carbonext would probably have better edge retention I'd say

  8. #18
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    The choil shot looks like a Sab bolster.

    Asking the right questions is one thing, asking the right people is another. Having a forum tied to one specific vendor will see their products advised others more often than not. Asking yourself why someone gives the advice they do is sadly something that should not be forgotten when you are unfamiliar with the people advising you.

    On a TV shopping network everyone that phones in has great things to say about the products....

    To make you're knife perform well I would draw a line about 15mm up from the edge all the way down each side and then abrade the shoulder of the bevel until you have a big wide bevel from that line down to the edge. I'd then add a small microbevel and use it for a bit. If it still feels too thick, draw a line 5mm above the old one and abrade up to there and try again.

    This will take a coarse stone, time and skill. A quicker result can be had with a belt grinder and an experienced operator.

    Good luck. If it were me I'd return it and try something else. Cktg does stock some decent knives so if you can exchange it l is not lost

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenStefano View Post
    Was this on the CKTG forum? If so that's basically lies and it makes me pretty angry. The Carbonext has a poor OOTB edge but it doesn't need reprofiled and the fit and finish is great for the price. In terms of edge retention between the Carbonext and AEB-L I think they will be fairly similar. AEB-L is common but not all of it is equal, some is great, some is poor. Comparing a Carbonext to the Artifex, the Carbonext would probably have better edge retention I'd say
    That's laughable that the CarboNext needs to be reprofiled. It could use a sharpening, but reprofiling?

    I bought a regular (not extra sharp) CarboNext a few months ago to compare it side to side with the Suisin Western Inox. I didn't really care for the knife, but its good for what it is at the price, and certainly doesn't need to be reprofiled. I liked the profile just fine. And, although it wasn't very sharp, the OOTB edge was fine to be used right away. I really want to now try out an unmodified Artifex now and compare it to my CarboNext.

    GG - Where are you in NorCal? Bay Area?
    Michael
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  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by franzb69 View Post
    how about we help the guy first?
    What do you recommend, Franz?
    Michael
    "Don't you know who he is?"

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