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Thread: Question on AEB-L (Artifex) in sharpening and edge retention [vs Forschner]

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by stereo.pete View Post
    I couldn't be happier with my Gesshin 400.
    agreed!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by labor of love View Post
    omura clogs up pretty easily with swarf...and the only reason i would use a stone that low would be for thinning...so its counterproductive...it works for some people but i used my beston instead...maybe a low grit king would be a better option?
    I was going to comment on this thread because I've used a King 250 before and I was going to recommend against getting a super low grit stone. You can remove a significant amount of material in a very short time if you're not careful with a sub 400 grit stone in my experience. (I use 400 as a reference point because the Gesshin 400 that I use seems to be significantly less abrasive than the King 250.) The King 250 is ROUGH.

    You can definitely use an Atoma 140 (and I assume a DMT XXC although I've never used a DMT; I have the Atoma 140) to thin a knife. I have. Will it reduce the life of the Atoma? Of course. But how much depends on how much you use it for thinning. Getting a DMT would also allow you to use it as a flattener so you're kind of killing two birds with one stone (no pun intended).

    But, in my experience, it does take significant effort and time to remove scratches (if you care about this kind of stuff) if you use a very coarse stone. I just used my Gesshin 400 yesterday, followed by my Gesshin 2000 on a Sakai Takayuki petty and a Masamoto KS and with about 10 minutes of work on each, I was able to get rid of most of the scratches of the 400 with the 2000 (to my non-contact lenses eyes). However, using the 250, in my experience, seems to require a lower grit stone before going up to a higher grit stone.

    So, since you have the Beston 1000, I think a DMT XX or possibly even an X could be a good solution. (From what I can tell from the DMT website, the X is equivalent to 220 grit.) Again, I've never used these plates; I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an Atoma, but I think it's a lot more than you want to pay.

    You'll probably want to ask around to see how the X is as a flattener and coarse stone. But at about $50, it could be a good alternative.
    Michael
    "Don't you know who he is?"

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GConcept999 View Post
    What does backing on sandpaper mean? Does it mean a raised surface like a piece of 2x4 block of wood?

    How many sheets of sandpaper do you guys think the thinning project would take assuming I cut them to ~4.5in x 11in size? I don't want to have to spend more than what it would be for a coarse stone (a reason why I was eyeing the Naniwa Omura #150 was that it is fairly affordable for the size).
    Would thinning a knife like this kill a diamond plate like DMT XXC or Atoma 140?

    Does it have to be wet sanded, or is dry sanding okay, followed by wet sanding to get rid of the deep scratches? Briefly searching, it does not seem like 120 grit wet/dry sandpaper is readily available

    Hmm, yes, I've heard of the pink brick, so many choices.
    I would go wt. the Diamond plate.If you have one great,it doesn't have to be an expensive one.On the Artiflex you want to remove a fare amount of steel on the lower half of the blade.With a 120 plate you can use a crossing scratch pattern which removes steel effectively.Then to remove scratches something like a 500-700 grit stone works.Then you can polish it up with the stones you ordered.The problem wt. low grit stones is they dish quickly & you have a fair amount of steel to remove.If you do not have a plate get one they have multible uses,flattening whetstones, knife reprofile & repair.

    I did a major thinning on a Artiflex Tall 240mm.Used a 140 Atoma & elbow grease.It is 50mm tall at the heel,I thinned halfway up the blade.It cuts way better with radical surgery.I have been using it alot since thinning,it holds a good edge,better than alot of stainless I have used.It is also easy to sharpen with the thin convex edge on it now.Peters does the HT for these blades.They are a respected industrial Heat Treatment Co.For Cultery they use a 3 step process with Cryo- freezing.

    I even cut frozen fruit for my fruit smoothies wt. it.No chipping,good steel.The problem with the Artiflex is the factory Taper sucks so it is a project knife,but if you do not mind a major reprofile it deff. pays off.

  4. #44
    I too am having great results on my AEB-L Artifex with some serious work using my DMT course stone. I've probably spend more than an hour working on the thinning and now it is a completely different knife. The steel is holding up great also after two weeks of daily cutting and still cuts very cleanly. A touch on the arm and hair just jumps off. Of course the real test is with food but I'm surprised at the edge holding so far.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by tomsch View Post
    I too am having great results on my AEB-L Artifex with some serious work using my DMT course stone. I've probably spend more than an hour working on the thinning and now it is a completely different knife. The steel is holding up great also after two weeks of daily cutting and still cuts very cleanly. A touch on the arm and hair just jumps off. Of course the real test is with food but I'm surprised at the edge holding so far.
    Congratulations on the accomplishment. It truly is shameful though that a new knife needs this much work.

    Cheers
    once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right

  6. #46
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    I was surprized also,been cutting frozen fruit wt it every morning,I cook for others every night.It is not like cutting for hours at a job.Been using it almost a month & have not resharpened it yet.

    Decided to rehandle it since I like the knife so much.Redesign to make handle little longer.Had to redrill one hole for Corby & center hole for Mosiac.Used a new solid carbide bit that usually goes right thru hardened steel.The AEB-L hardened tang was not an easy drill.With the edge holding & hardness of steel I feel the Heat Treatment on this blade is excellent.

    Using African Blackwood wt nickle silver corby rivits & nickle silver mosiac.I can easy see why Custom makers like this steel.

  7. #47
    I agree with MHLee about the deep scratches being difficult to remove, but so it goes.. automotive refinishing adhesive-backed 120 is nice to work with if you put it on a flat tile or glass or tablesaw... and you'll probably use 4 sheets or more (max hopefully 6?). THEN if you have access to a 1k-ish diamond, it could be good for removing scratches.. or on a regular 1k it might take 20 hard minutes.. perhaps this order would be best economically speaking.. every time I've put a wide bevel of steel to a diamond plate it has really taxed heavily. For very narrow bevels or flattening other stones I use my Atoma. I've even found chamferring edges of stones with the diamond plate to be detrimental, and use a (real) brick/other stones

  8. #48
    Senior Member Ucmd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benuser View Post
    This link might actually work

    http://postimg.org/image/cma6nezdv/





    THis has got to be a joke. You could split wood with that. Dont waste time trying to fix....take it out to the wood shop.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by chinacats View Post
    Congratulations on the accomplishment. It truly is shameful though that a new knife needs this much work.

    Cheers
    Yes, it is truly an accomplishment to thin this knife I'll have to take pictures of what it looks like with the hours spent so far. Too bad that the grind is so bad because the steel is performing very well.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Justin0505's Avatar
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    Gesshin 400 and diamond plates are great, but not cheap and you're going to put a lot of wear on them trying to grind all that steel down.
    +1 For the recommendation to use coarse auto sandpaper or emery cloth to start with.

    If you want to add convexing, you can to it by laying somthing like foam or rubber sheeting or a firm mouse pad under the sandpaper. You can find plenty of videos of guys doing that with hunting or bushcraft knives on youtube.


    Another thing to consider here is that the HT can often be screwed up by the ape doing the finish grinding and sharpening if they're too chimp-aggressive and heat the steel up too much with friction. People often find that the steel's performance drastically improves once they remove some layers of this damaged metal at and behind the edge. So as long as you don't mind a "project" removing all the metal will improve the performance of your knife both in geometry and it edge taking and holding.

    Take it slow and pay attention to what you're doing / the effect it has on cutting and you will come out of this project with a better understanding of what makes a good kitchen knife than the people that made and sold you this one.
    "I gotta tell ya, this is pretty terrific. Ha hahaha, YEAH!" - Moe (w/ 2 knives). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVt4U...layer_embedded

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