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Thread: Suien VC Cleaver profile.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnimativ View Post
    What does the #6 mean? Sharing the same blade profile w/ Sugimoto #6?
    I think it is related to the type of the cleaver (slicer, chopper, meat cleaver), and weight, does not have anything to do with profile.

  2. #22
    I think Andy777 has a nice that method that takes some of the size variation out of cleaver classifications...look at gr/cm2.
    I've looked at #6 slicers that seem to vary in size from 95 to 110 tall, and 210 to 240 in length, and then there's taper.

    FWIW - I've had the opportunity to bounce into Action Sales in Alhambra a few times lately - this place easily has 1000 woks over 20" on the sales floor. It has to be the walk in asian restaurant supply in LA County. In cleavers, they probably had over 100 CCK's = BUT nothing in the 11xx series, only 12xx and above.

    For Slicers in the #6 size it was all about the Dexter Russell Connoisseur large size in SS

  3. #23
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    Some companies, Sugimoto, Mizuno, use the number 6 do designate a slicing cleaver. Number 7 is a chopping cleaver, which is a bit of misnomer. A better term would be 'all purpose'. Moritaka uses the term 'all mighty', to describe their chopping cleaver. Tojiro uses their own numbering system. Some manufactures just list size and weight. This is when Andy777's system, helps identify the cleaver type.

    Jay

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mateo View Post
    Yeah, that's the #6 right? It looks like (on JCK) that both the carbon and Swedish are #6, but the carbon has more belly to it. I'm not considering stainless for this, especially after hearing Andy's absolutely glowing review of Mizuno's carbon steel (10.5 out of 10 on his scale :P) -- the cleaver-master also gave the Mizuno a 9.5 for edge profile, while the Suien got 7.5, I'm assuming that's because of the big belly. Either way, Suien to Mizuno = big step up in $$...
    I'd still recommend getting the Suien, to try out a full size cleaver in Japanese steel, to find out if you like the size and weight. The Suien will do most of what the higher end cleavers can do. The price is right and you can always sell it, if it doesn't work out.

    The Mizuno has more belly then the Suien. It is a larger cleaver, mine is 235mm, but it is surprisingly light. Mizuno steel has a reputation on the In the Kitchen forum as being very hard. I don't own other blue steel knives, so I can't compare. In my hands the steel feels tough, I feel that I can cut any type of food without having to worry about the edge.

    Curtis posted his pm's he had with Andy, about his experience with the Mizuno, over on ITK. Andy also posted his own experiences and review.

    Over the past few years, cleavers have gotten really expensive, along with all the other high end knives. When Andy started, he picked up his Takeda's for around $200, a few years later I got one for $350.00, now they are being sold for $500. The Mizuno was around $300.00, when I picked it up. Now its getting close to $400.00. Ironically the knife pointed out in his review as being on the expensive side, the Sugimoto #6 has maintained its price, and is the one I'd recommend, as a high end knife.

    The Sugimoto has it all, its the right size, so its quick and nimble. The handle is the most comfortable on a stock cleaver.
    The spine is rounded. The distal taper starts an inch away from the handle, my thumb and finger naturally rest on this spot, giving the cleaver a locked in feel. The distal taper is nice, the front end, does well with slicing, while the back end has enough heft to go through thicker foods. It is a very easy knife to sharpen, takes a keen edge, and holds it a long time.

    The ultimate slicing cleaver would be from Butch. He has a reputation for making a thin knife. A few years ago, he collaborated with Andy and came up with the ideal slicing cleaver. For a thin, but heavier cleaver, I'd suggest Murray Carter. Again Andy placed an order with Murray, so I don't know if it was his specs, but the cleaver has what I'd consider to be the ideal profile. Curved at the tip, but flat at the heal.

    Hope this helps,

    Jay

  5. #25
    I've had a number of cleavers from CCK (3 different styles from thin to the bone buster BBQ), Suien VC, Takeda, Sugimoto, Forum Cleaver, Dexter, Tarhong Wan Woo Knife (cleaver), Shun and a Masahiro M3. I even have a bone buster from the 1903 Worlds Fair (great grandmothers). At any rate I got extremely lucky with the Masahiro M3 as they are a turkey shoot as to what one will get. I got a perfect one and love it. I rate the Suien VC and Masahiro equals in both steel though I have fish handles on both. The Takeda is also in their ranks as is however I was really disappointed in the Sugimoto I got and rate the rest as simply OK for a home cook. The only Suien I've lusted for is Andy's VG10 version but never got him to sell it to me so I bought the Forum VG10 and also rate it just below my top three picks. Those 3 I rotate regularly using the VG10 for stuff such as high acid stuff. I would be hard pressed to sell any of the top 4 regardless.
    --
    Joe

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by joec View Post
    The Takeda is also in their ranks as is however I was really disappointed in the Sugimoto I got and rate the rest as simply OK for a home cook.
    If you want to say that the used Sugimoto #6, that you picked up from a member off of In the Kitchen was a messed up , is a fair statement. The person who sold it, admitted that he changed the bevels to hack up chickens.

    You don't have a basis to imply that there is something wrong with the whole line of Sugimotos. A number of us have found them to be an excellent knife.

    Jay

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jaybett View Post
    If you want to say that the used Sugimoto #6, that you picked up from a member off of In the Kitchen was a messed up , is a fair statement. The person who sold it, admitted that he changed the bevels to hack up chickens.

    You don't have a basis to imply that there is something wrong with the whole line of Sugimotos. A number of us have found them to be an excellent knife.

    Jay
    I didn't say anything about the whole line as I stated the one I had was a real disappointment. The same can be said for the M3 as I've seen several and some actually are a thick as a bone buster while others are thin with a great profile. I don't put down the whole line of any knife/style/maker. When I post an opinion it is always in regards to what I own/have owned only and only in regards to what I found with those own blades. I hope that is clearer to you Jay.
    --
    Joe

  8. #28
    Senior Member Cadillac J's Avatar
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    Is it weird that for the last few years, whenever I hear/see the word "cleaver", I've always pictured a turtle with a pirate's patch on one eye in my mind?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jaybett View Post
    Some companies, Sugimoto, Mizuno, use the number 6 do designate a slicing cleaver. Number 7 is a chopping cleaver, which is a bit of misnomer. A better term would be 'all purpose'. Moritaka uses the term 'all mighty', to describe their chopping cleaver. Tojiro uses their own numbering system. Some manufactures just list size and weight. This is when Andy777's system, helps identify the cleaver type.

    Jay
    How about no.30?

    It's much easier to know a knife's purpose in Chinese with proper naming. Instead of an all encompassing name of 'cleaver'.

    BTW, price appreciation of these knives are mild if you compare to the JPYUSD exchange rate. The dollar has been steadily declining for decades and accelerated dramatically since '09.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by joec View Post
    I didn't say anything about the whole line as I stated the one I had was a real disappointment. The same can be said for the M3 as I've seen several and some actually are a thick as a bone buster while others are thin with a great profile. I don't put down the whole line of any knife/style/maker. When I post an opinion it is always in regards to what I own/have owned only and only in regards to what I found with those own blades. I hope that is clearer to you Jay.
    Often when there was a positive post about Sugimoto, typically you respond with a glib comment that your Sugimoto was a disappointment. The problem is that to date you have not been able to come up with a reason why the Sugimoto was a disappointment. In the past when I've asked for more details, you have either been evasive or defensive.

    In the end, it comes out that your Sugimoto was screwed up, by the previous owner, who posted that he changed the bevels so he could chop up chickens. After all the effort you and Dave put into the knife, the problem was unable to be fixed.

    How can you form an opinion on a knife that came to you with problems? How is any of this Sugimoto's fault?

    Jay

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