The White #2 Experience

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TheDispossessed

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Some thoughts here about White #2 steel.
My experience has led me to feel this might be the best beginner's steel for kitchen knives. I think it's high reactivity and poor edge retention are actually good qualities under the right consideration.
Young cooks looking to develop knife skills and maintenance would do well to learn to always be mindful of the cleanliness of their blades, and you get get a whole lot better at sharpening if you have to do it every night. As well, and as many of you are aware, it's an easy steel to sharpen and takes a great edge, which is very rewarding. A little bit of fragility is a good thing too, as I find force is rarely if ever neccesary with a knife and using a blade you have to be mindful of will help develop finesse with your approach to cutting and such. oh yeah and there's no need for sharpies when taking these blades to the stone.
i think all young cooks should go buy a $200 white steel gyuto should they be able to afford it. it will teach you a lot of good things and be a lot of fun. it feels good having a moderately priced, unassuming knife that's way way sharpen than anyone else's! then there's always room to upgrade in the future..
just some random thoughts..
thanks!
 
In my collection I have two stainless; an Ealy parer, and an ITK bread; a few semi, and a few dozen carbon, probably close to half being white 1 or 2.

I have zero issues with maintenance, besides having to be mindful of keeping them well oiled when out of rotation.

I find that with deliberate, push cutting, with light board contact, that my edges last far longer than a night.

The fact I bring them back to whistling sharp with a few passes on a green brick or a Rika is awesome...

Love white and blue. 52100 and 1095 aren't so bad either....
 
Sharpening a white #2 deba tonight I had the same thought. It's so rewarding to sharpen, especially as I'm only now getting really confident with single bevel sharpening. Jon's post the other day about beginners single bevel knives was along the same lines.
 
So having to sharpen a knife all the time makes it good? In a profession where you have very little free time I cannot agree with this. I got rid of all my White #2 knives because the edge retention is not good and I got tired of sharpening them every week or so when I had others that would last a month. I suspect a lot of young cooks would try something else or just use it blunt after a few weeks of regular sharpening a White#2 blade
 
So having to sharpen a knife all the time makes it good? In a profession where you have very little free time I cannot agree with this. I got rid of all my White #2 knives because the edge retention is not good and I got tired of sharpening them every week or so when I had others that would last a month. I suspect a lot of young cooks would try something else or just use it blunt after a few weeks of regular sharpening a White#2 blade

I totally agree. For me, edge retention is just about the most important factor in a pro environment. I can adjust to different profiles, but losing an edge quickly is something I can't deal with on a day to day basis. It's the reason I got rid of all my white steel too. Blue is far superior to white in the retention category IMHO. I love blue, but can't stand white. Ymmv depending on usage and the environment.
 
I don't think I will ever own a white steel blade for the crappy retention, that is about as annoying as you can get! Imagine if you had to recharge your cell phone 3 times a day just to send text msgs..
 
I don't think I will ever own a white steel blade for the crappy retention, that is about as annoying as you can get! Imagine if you had to recharge your cell phone 3 times a day just to send text msgs..

I have to charge my phone quite a bit these days b/c I have a heavy user and constantly using it...that's b/c I have a 4.7 in HD screen too gobbling it all up
 
I literally just had a White steel Usuba delivered today, made for the proper hand of course: left.

Any specific thoughts on sharpening for me? Sounds like I'm going to be doing some in the near future.
 
I literally just had a White steel Usuba delivered today, made for the proper hand of course: left.

Any specific thoughts on sharpening for me? Sounds like I'm going to be doing some in the near future.

Hey Zwi. Just checked out your profile. I'd probably do whatever your fav 1000 stone is, followed by the 5000 Mizuyama and strop lightly on the Kitayama 8000. White steel is stupid easy to get a good edge on. I like a toothier edge, so I don't go crazy high in the stones or with the strops. I generally stop with stones at around 4-5k and then strop with boron carbide on leather. White isn't bad steel by any means, it just needs a lil more tlc.
 
Hey Zwi. Just checked out your profile. I'd probably do whatever your fav 1000 stone is, followed by the 5000 Mizuyama and strop lightly on the Kitayama 8000. White steel is stupid easy to get a good edge on. I like a toothier edge, so I don't go crazy high in the stones or with the strops. I generally stop with stones at around 4-5k and then strop with boron carbide on leather. White isn't bad steel by any means, it just needs a lil more tlc.

excellent, thanks Mr. Hay!
 
So having to sharpen a knife all the time makes it good? In a profession where you have very little free time I cannot agree with this. I got rid of all my White #2 knives because the edge retention is not good and I got tired of sharpening them every week or so when I had others that would last a month. I suspect a lot of young cooks would try something else or just use it blunt after a few weeks of regular sharpening a White#2 blade

Hey,

Which knives do you use in a pro kitchen that last you a full month without sharpening?? I can't say I have any knives that I would still consider sharp after 2 weeks of solid use in my kitchen.

Also, I am just curious as to which white steel knives all of you are using that you dislike so much? I personally think people worry to much about the steel of a knife. I have some white steel knives that out perform many of my other steels. At the same time I have had some white steel knives that had terrible edge retention like my kono gyuto. But I am just curious exactly which white steel knives you have all used that you hated so much?

-Chuck
 
of course edge retention is key, and crucial in a pro environment, this i do not argue. i'm just saying, there's hidden virtues in the fault of things. for a beginner, having to sharpen every day or two will make you learn much, much faster is all. and as i said, there's always room for upgrading in the future.
fyi, i'm using white #2 gyuto and petty for all my knife work which is a very solid 8 hours a day (out of a twelve hour shift), on poly boards. the gyuto i sharpen daily, the petty every two or three. both knives could absolutely be used for much longer between sharpening but i enjoy doing it and want a really keen edge for every shift.
 
I loved starting with a tojiro white steel. And that was only $80 for a 240. Really good steel to learn on, seems like no matter what I do it gets scary sharp. Lasts ok in home kitchen and seems to strop pretty well.
 
In my collection I have two stainless; an Ealy parer, and an ITK bread; a few semi, and a few dozen carbon, probably close to half being white 1 or 2.

I have zero issues with maintenance, besides having to be mindful of keeping them well oiled when out of rotation.

I find that with deliberate, push cutting, with light board contact, that my edges last far longer than a night.

The fact I bring them back to whistling sharp with a few passes on a green brick or a Rika is awesome...

Love white and blue. 52100 and 1095 aren't so bad either....

Agree Carbons deff. work well for Pro. Kit.Used everyday little or no maintainence except sharpening.Ease of sharpening eg. whistling sharp on a few passes is huge when spending hours cutting.

I used White & Blue steel Yanagi's both worked awesome.Thin Lazors & thicker workhorse carbon gyuto's.Look at a Japanese Fishmarket,cutting huge quantities of fish wt. carbon blades & Chinatowns all those cleavers cutting Duck,Chicken & Pork,tons of vegitables.Asian nationals esp. pro Kit. use more carbons & have sharper knives than Americans & Europeans as a rule.

No Sushi Chef I know ever used stainless steel yanagi's or other Single Bevels.Is it because they are ignorant or they prize extremely sharp edges that peel thin sheets of daikon & Fish & are easy to sharpen.:soapbox:I go for the latter
 
Its always hard to judge other peoples workload and let it translate into "I only sharpen every X days"

If you shave a case of green onion during each of your 12 hour shifts, but only need to sharpen once a month, I am doing something fundamentally wrong on the stones.

Which ... is not at all out of the question lol
 
I'm inclined to agree with Chuck on this one. Sharp is relative and I don't have any knives nor have I been exposed to any that don't beg for a touch-up within a couple of months and I'm not a pro. Maybe I suck at sharpening or stretching my edge life but I don't think so. To the OP, I agree but you don't have to spend $200 for decent carbon steel and white 2 isn't very stinky at all in the grand scheme of things.
 
Its always hard to judge other peoples workload and let it translate into "I only sharpen every X days"

If you shave a case of green onion during each of your 12 hour shifts, but only need to sharpen once a month, I am doing something fundamentally wrong on the stones.

Which ... is not at all out of the question lol

I am not saying he is wrong or lying. To be honest my 2 week quote is even pushing my liking of a sharp knife. I just have not found a knife that can last a month with an edge I am satisfied with and I think I have tried quite a few knives (only a few people on the forum know how sick I am). I was just curious which knives they had this luck with because I have not found that knife. There could be something wrong with my sharpening but I have several other people very well known for sharpening sharpen some of my best knives.

My main concern was about the white steel knives. I have used one or 2 that I hated but I have also used many knives with different steels that I have disliked just as much. My main point is that I feel the heat treatment is more important when it comes to edge retention. Hell, give some of the crazy steels devin is using (mystery carbon, Wear resistant, ect) to an old school Japanese knife maker and I would bet the heat treatment would not be as solid as it is on the steels they are used to using.

-Chuck
 
chuck, what knives do you like that are made from white steel that have decent edge retention and heat treat? i found many differences in white steel performance varying from maker to maker but none that i would consider to have decent edge retention.
 
I am just curious exactly which white steel knives you have all used that you hated so much?

-Chuck

Carter.:2cents:

His blue was not bad, sucks he does not use it anymore. But his white.......
 
chuck, what knives do you like that are made from white steel that have decent edge retention and heat treat? i found many differences in white steel performance varying from maker to maker but none that i would consider to have decent edge retention.

Carter, gengetsu, Gesshin Ittetsu, gesshin ginga Honyaki (being one of my favorite knives period), Gesshin Uraku single beveled knives, I feel like I am forgetting one or 2.

Like I said before, I have also used several white steel knives that I have disliked very much. What what steel knives have you felt had terrible edge retention? I am curious as to what other people are seeing.... I have personally seen a few. Just curious as to others opinions.

-Chuck
 
I had a Masamoto KS and the edge retention was not good. I used a Sakai Yusuke suji for a while and the edge retention was better than the Masamoto but still not what I'd call good. I found that with these knives once the edge started to lose its sharpness at all I almost needed to strop after every cut. I have 2 of Tilman's knives and the edge retention is way better. I'm not trying to say they're screaming sharp after a month, but they're still useable and I don't have to continually strop every 5 mins like with the white steel knives. I work 6 days a week so I don't sharpen as often as I'd like so I kinda baby the knives a little to get them to go that long, but with the white steel knives I tried it was impossible
 
Steven,

I have actually never owned the 2 knives you talked about. I did get to use a KS and I liked it (profile) but the edge retention was not great. I will say the knives I mentions all had better edge retention then the masamoto I got to use. But again, my main point is I still feel it is all about heat treatment. It really doesn't matter which steel it matters how it was treated. I own a Tilman and have not been blown away by the edge retention to be honest. It's a very good knife but not one of my best for edge retention. I do like my knives very sharp at work and don;t get a long time out of them but I have never been satisfied with the edge on my Tilman after a dew days at work.

I guess my point is, I have used blue steel, CMP, 52100, 0-1, powdered steels, so on and so forth... And been very disappointed with knives by certain makers using these steels. But It is not the steel, it is the heat treatment. Because I have also used knives in many of those steels that were very good knives with great edge retention... I will just keep preaching that I don't think it is a singular steel that is bad, I believe it is the heat treatment of each individual knife.

-Chuck
 
chuck which heat treats did you find the best retention from? ease of sharpening is something i also value so i look for a balance. i will sacrifice ultimate sharpness for either one of those qualities (wear & ease) without hesitation
 
I agree. The knives I've had made with white #2 just seem to WANT to get sharp. I've only been freehand sharpening a year or so, but I find the white #2 knives uniquely satisfying. I picked up an Ashi Hamono Cleaver in white #2 from BST a while back. It arrived not particularly sharp, but I put it tentatively and briefly on my 1200 Bester and 5k Rika- and BANG- it cuts tomatoes without my holding them. And I've gone two months since then with just stropping on balsa with CBN. Admittedly, I'm a home cook, so edge retention isn't a priority, but I really can't complain.
 
ive owned konosuke, carter, sakai yusuke and masamoto white steel gyutos. Atleast those are the only ones that come to mind at the moment. sakai yusuke had the best retention of them all while i think konosuke had the worst. Carter and Masamoto were somewhere in the middle. That being said, none of these knives had good edge retention. White steel gyutos are for people who want screaming sharp edges quickly and dont mind touching up their blades daily, atleast in professional kitchens.
on the other end of the spectrum ive used gesshin gingas, suisin inox honyakis, konosuke hd, misono 440 and swed stainless, DT ITK, and tojiro just to name a few. ofcourse the retention varies between these stainless knives but to me the strategy is to get through the work week with a good edge and just resharpening on my day off.
 
I like a toothier edge, so I don't go crazy high in the stones or with the strops. I generally stop with stones at around 4-5k and then strop with boron carbide on leather.
Why do you rather an edge with bite? Is there benefit to this?

So different brands of stones have important property difference? :dazed:

Is it safe to used a leather belt to strop?
 
I guess my point is, I have used blue steel, CMP, 52100, 0-1, powdered steels, so on and so forth... And been very disappointed with knives by certain makers using these steels. But It is not the steel, it is the heat treatment. Because I have also used knives in many of those steels that were very good knives with great edge retention... I will just keep preaching that I don't think it is a singular steel that is bad, I believe it is the heat treatment of each individual knife.

-Chuck

I understand what you are saying Chuck and I have a feeling that some of the higher end White #2 knives that JKI carry for example would be better than those I have tried because if they weren't I don't think Jon would sell them. At the same time though you know the saying "Once bitten twice shy"

White steel gyutos are for people who want screaming sharp edges quickly and dont mind touching up their blades daily, at least in professional kitchens.

I think this is fair, and that kind of person is the total opposite to me
 

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