Why so japanocentric?

[JBroida]

hahaha

[Marko Tsourkan]

one of the reasons you dont see mono blades from shigefusa and m390 from yoshikane is specialization, which is something we often forget about here. Being able to do everything doesnt mean you will be good at all of it. Theres a reason you see guys like kramer using mainly 52100 or devin spending huge amounts of time with aeb-l, etc.

It has also to do with the difficulty of production and cost. San mai is cheaper than mono steel, and san mai blades are easier to straighten after heat treatment than forged monosteel knives and finish.

Specializing is good, but I think offering fewer steel is more for convenience, than inability to heat treat several steels equally well if you do it in a controlled environment. It comes down to developing a recipe and following it.

When you forge in traditional J. way, anneal, grind - that's a different ball game. That requires years to learn and master.. But same can be said for people who forge and make damascus steel (DT, B. Burke, Kramer and others) in the US.

Now I could sense a little jab on something that I wrote a while back. Let me restate it - over-hardened knife chips, soft knife rolls. So rather than applying a quick fix - microbevel on every blade that chips, maybe it's time to admit the simple truth?

A well heat treated blade will do neither. People over-harden a blade intentionally to squeeze a little more wear resistance out of steel that doesn't have alloys that contribute to WR, or unintentionally, heat treatment by eye, not adequate temper, etc. You placing a blind trust into a smith is fine with me, but a chipping blade is over-hardened, no matter how you put it. Or maybe you would rather be told stories.

[Chef Doom]

but a chipping blade is over-hardened, no matter how you put it.

What if someone wants a knife that hard for a specific reason?

[Patatas Bravas]

While it shouldn't become an excuse in some circumstances, in others it most certainly is and I think parts of this thread are an example of how members whose first language is English often have no idea what it's like to deal with people in another language, let alone what it's like for members who are using English here as their 2nd language, or 3rd language, etc. Coupled with that, even if a member's first language is English it doesn't mean they write well or are always clear and may not realise either. Sometimes I'd like to see some more thought and consideration given to this as the more open and international this forum is the better I'd say.

(Incidentally, this isn't necessarily about US and non-US members; there's one and probably several US members whose first language isn't English too.)

Unfortunate that the number of Japanese members seems to be zero, though there are some members based there.

[maxim]

I like that If you dont understand it better change it LOL

What if someone wants a knife that hard for a specific reason?

I know quite a lot of japanese chefs that requast that kind of knives that is super hard ! and Can chip
And "well heat treated blade" they will call crap
And what will you say to him ?? Try to heat you blade and quinch it to make it harder

[JBroida]

San mai is not always less expensive than mono steel, but it is easier to straighten.

On the over hardened knives, i still think you are wrong there... i've used and sharpened a lot of knives, including yours. There is a lot to be said for knife skills, technique, personal preference, and sharpening techniques. Quite frankly, you dont know what you dont know.

[Marko Tsourkan]

What if someone wants a knife that hard for a specific reason?

I can't think of one, short of cutting proteins with barely touching a board. Micro chipping happens from a contact with the board, rather than with a bone or other object.

Now I will comment on tempering in the oven. How do you think it is done in commercial settings and among many custom makers? In convection ovens and molted salts at about 350-400F for simple carbon steels. Your kitchen oven is fairly accurate in that range. Not so ridiculous an idea, if you ask anybody who ever tried making knives. People do it all the time (if they work out of their garage or have a shop in the backyard).

M

[maxim]

Sorry but i agree, there is a lot you dont know what you dont know !

And also still a lot to learn before make comment like that

I can't think of one, short of cutting proteins with barely touching a board. Micro chipping happens from a contact with the board, rather than with a bone or other object.

Now I will comment on tempering in the oven. How do you think it is done in commercial settings and among many custom makers? In convection ovens and molted salts at about 350-400F for simple carbon steels. Your kitchen oven is fairly accurate in that range. Not so ridiculous an idea, if you ask anybody who ever tried making knives. People do it all the time (if they work out of their garage or have a shop in the backyard).

M

[Marko Tsourkan]

Basics of heat treating is not a rocket science. Every steel manufacturer would have recommended heat treatment chart/graphs and temperatures that can be taken as a base and tweaked for a custom HT. What I stated here is elementary stuff. I don't understand why people find it so hard to believe.

Anyway, pointless to continue.

[maxim]

Ohh yeah let me try to explain

Your knives dont chip because they are to soft or they are grownd to thick.
Because i could make it chip with same angle as Jknives
Second Mono Steel knives with that heat thread is pain in the ass to sharpen or thin, so if it is to thick at the end in the first place it will be pain in the ass to sharpen or thin.
Knives that i have tried with that properties as you describe above feel like rubber on the stones. And not pleasant to sharpen for a chef that sharpen knives every day
And most important for Japanese chefs, yes it can not be as sharp as those super hard knives that you call bad heat treated.

So i guess if you want to go German road and make your knives for people that prefer German like Henckels knives, you are right and you should go in that direction, so yeah pointless to continue