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Thread: Why so japanocentric?

  1. #191
    Senior Member Birnando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    This thread just got boring.
    The reason for that must be that you stopped contributing

  2. #192

    Zwiefel's Avatar
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    Age has absolutely no relation to value. zero. zed. zip. nada. nunka. As a historian, I'm continually baffled by both sides of the Atlantic on this topic.
    Remember: You're a unique individual...just like everybody else.

  3. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    ...I can also see some confusing opinions from you... Youre saying youre a knut, youre spending hours and hours on the stones, yet youre mentioning retention as very important.
    This one I dont care about. Mee too I like my stones talking to them using them so no problem. When worked at restaurant, would woke up half an hour earier to sharpen my knife and make it ready, every morning.
    What's so confusing about wanting better edge retention? I can sharpen just about anything to be sharp and then what? Using your logic, i.e. removing edge retention from the equation, Furi or Pakistani no name junk knives are just as good as top end kitchen knives from either side of the ocean. Nevermind that the edge lasts 3 minutes on one, and 3 month on the other... Is that what you really are saying?

    P.S. I am not quite sure what's up with town ages and how is that related to knives anyway. I hope knives in there are not made using 700 year old tech

  4. #194
    Senior Member Birnando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator View Post
    What's so confusing about wanting better edge retention? I can sharpen just about anything to be sharp and then what? Using your logic, i.e. removing edge retention from the equation, Furi or Pakistani no name junk knives are just as good as top end kitchen knives from either side of the ocean. Nevermind that the edge lasts 3 minutes on one, and 3 month on the other... Is that what you really are saying?

    P.S. I am not quite sure what's up with town ages and how is that related to knives anyway. I hope knives in there are not made using 700 year old tech
    While Bieniek is more than capable of answering this on his own, I'd like to give my two cents on that subject.
    The idea, to some, seems to be that a traditional steel, like good Japanese carbon steeled knives, (shigs and whatnot) can take that little extra keenness fresh of the hones.
    The longevity of that edge seems less important to some of us, as honing is another enjoyable/acceptable part of this sport/hobby or whatever.

    If I am to speak for myself, I tend to agree with the above, and do not enjoy one bit the rubbery feeling modern super-steels gives while honing.
    further more, they seem to be able to hone up pretty good, but they seem to settle very quickly at about 95% of what was achieved on the hones, and keep that way longer than most carbon steeled knives.
    And while 95% is just fine and dandy for getting the job done, some of us seem to prefer the even keener edges that we feel some traditional knives will yield.
    That last paragraph is my experience on the subject thus far anyways.

    In other words, it is all about feel.
    Both while using the tool, but also when honing them.

    Not nescessarily ease of honing, but feel.

    As a final sigh before I hit the sack, we should probably all consider the fact that most anything we discuss regarding this topic would leave the majority of chefs and novice users alike shaking their heads and consider us all pretty much ready for the looney bin...
    Splitting hairs and minute differences would be other terms to describe what I mean

  5. #195
    Senior Member Chuckles's Avatar
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    When worked at restaurant, would woke up half an hour earier to sharpen my knife and make it ready, every morning.
    This sounds like a nice routine to me.

    Mornings I am a Dad not a chef. The kiddo is asleep by the time I am done with work so no knife sharpening before work for me. When working sous in a kitchen that closed at 1:00 AM and was BUSY until midnight while being home alone with a 3 month old starting at 4:30 AM I admit my "preference" for edge retention changed radically.

    Send me the faulty Kato if you wish.
    Already fixed. I will admit your posts on Kato were very helpful. I do think it is a very strong performer now.
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  6. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Gator View Post
    What's so confusing about wanting better edge retention? I can sharpen just about anything to be sharp and then what?
    And then you have to use it hard, so you can sharpen some more. How simple is that concept?
    At work, I never think whats better for the edge retention, I bash the edge chip the edge scrape board with the edge. Chop chop chop job done. Tell me how wrong I am and maybe send Dick Chenney to fix me. I dont do that because of lack of respect for the tool, oh no, I really like my stuff polished but all of them, indeed, are tools.

    They earn my money. Maybe thats the difference?

    Im not sure why you start talking about Pakistani? Are these ground in similar manner to decent kitchen knife? Are them really all that sharpenable? I just handled one so far, from my experience it did not tick any of these boxes, maybe youve had such a luck?
    But really, you managed that good edge on a 'furi' blade??

  7. #197
    Senior Member Crothcipt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    This thread just got boring.
    Are you kidding?? Birnando just introduced the original term of dungeons and dragons with that link. Maybe euro popcorn is better than jpop.




    I myself wonder why the blade road on a us makers knife is so small with hollow bevels? I see it all the time, and end up reaching for something that is influenced in a totally different way.
    Chewie's the man.

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwiefel View Post
    Age has absolutely no relation to value. zero. zed. zip. nada. nunka. As a historian, I'm continually baffled by both sides of the Atlantic on this topic.
    I may be taking you out of context here, but age is related to scarcity and scarcity is related to value. Let alone tradition, sentiment etc. which are both very valuable to people, more valuable than money and logic.

  9. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    And then you have to use it hard, so you can sharpen some more. How simple is that concept?
    I see So, having higher edge retention prevents you from enjoying sharpening process more often. I suppose to each his own.

    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    Tell me how wrong I am and maybe send Dick Chenney to fix me.
    Dude, your "US is so evil" gets kindda old You don't have to squeeze political crap into sharpening/knife use discussion, and no I didn't post a reply to you based on nationality or location...
    I'm not sure whether you are in Oslo or Poland, but at any rate, you probably should be worried more about Putin as a threat to your 700yr old home town, rather than me sending Dick Cheney powered by electrical pump to wreck havoc in there or change your sharpening habits.

    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    They earn my money. Maybe thats the difference?
    And spending more time on sharpening vs. actual cutting helps to earn more money how? As far as I understand you are getting paid for cooking, not for sharpening?

    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    But really, you managed that good edge on a 'furi' blade??
    Yeah, if you try hard and long enough you will, lasts for very short time, but its presence can be detected

  10. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Birnando View Post
    The idea, to some, seems to be that a traditional steel, like good Japanese carbon steeled knives, (shigs and whatnot) can take that little extra keenness fresh of the hones.
    I suppose hones == stones? Anyway, how long that keennss lasts if you bash the edge and scrape on the board an chip it? I have not used any of my Japanese knives fresh off the stone, as usual I go with 3 different strops after that, I can't really comment on exact longevity under such use, but I suspect stronger edge would help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birnando View Post
    The longevity of that edge seems less important to some of us, as honing is another enjoyable/acceptable part of this sport/hobby or whatever.
    Alright, that's fine, although nothing prevents you guys form sharpening as often as you want Regardless of the blade edge retention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birnando View Post
    If I am to speak for myself, I tend to agree with the above, and do not enjoy one bit the rubbery feeling modern super-steels gives while honing.
    Well, as it was posted, sounds like you guys would rather have Shirogami or Aogami at 60 hrc is vs. 64-65... There's plenty of makers doing both, so which one would you choose?

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