Quantcast
Why so japanocentric?
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 22 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 214

Thread: Why so japanocentric?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    113

    Why so japanocentric?

    Hi
    I noticed that this forum is very fokused on japanese cutlery or imitation/interpretation of it? I mean, there a so many wondeful knifmakers and fanastic knifecompanies all around the world that get no notice here. I mean not at all! Is there any specific reason? Is because people think japanese cutlery is superior op all other (thats what advertisment tells us, but i see hordes of japanes tourist buying loads and loads of swiss and german cutlery here in europe, so that hardly can be true).
    Or is it that all the good stuff from France, Switzerland, Austria or Germany is rarly exported und our US-Friends just get the china-made factory stuff like Zwilling, "Messermeister" (completly unknown in Germany) and the such? And have all the right to diss these crappy blades.
    Dont get me wrong: I love the eastern stuff too, the aesthetics and all. But over the years a i always came back to german super-thin high carbon knives as my goto-knives. And they just cost a fraction...

    Please enlighten me

    Greets Benjamin

    P.S: Please excuse my poor english, it obviously not my motherlanguage

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mucho Bocho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    1,282
    Banjo, Welcome to our forum. You're English is better than mine and I'm a native. So I get asked this question all the time. There are far more knowledgeable members than I on this forum that will chime in, some considerations why most of us think that Japanese and Japanese inspired knives are better are because:

    1.) Their knife profile give the cook multiple ways to cut with them. example: Sure it can be done but its rather tough to push-cut with a proper European Chef knife.

    2.)The steels that are used are very specialized. They are selected specifically for their use. Some are very hard, allowing amazing long edge holding ability.

    3.) The knives we discuss around her are all hand made, but people that take their craft very seriously. Its a cross between an utility industry and artistic expression. Spend some times looking at the knives from the craftsmen on this board.


    BTW: Do you actually play the banjo? I pick a little Clawhammer myself. Enoch Dobson, bum diddy bum

  3. #3
    Senior Member Von blewitt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Merimbula, Australia
    Posts
    1,576
    I'd be interested to see some artisan Euro carbon knives! Any links?
    Huw
    In order to make delicious food, you must eat delicious food. Jiro Ono

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    436
    i know exactly what you are talkin about, banjo. i think the main reason for this is language. people can hardly inform about knifes that are not advertised in their language. you also dont search russian forums, do you?

  5. #5
    The alleles created by mutation may be beneficial

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Hampton Roads, VA
    Posts
    1,872
    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1071 View Post
    Hi
    I noticed that this forum is very fokused on japanese cutlery or imitation/interpretation of it? I mean, there a so many wondeful knifmakers and fanastic knifecompanies all around the world that get no notice here. I mean not at all! Is there any specific reason? Is because people think japanese cutlery is superior op all other (thats what advertisment tells us, but i see hordes of japanes tourist buying loads and loads of swiss and german cutlery here in europe, so that hardly can be true).
    Or is it that all the good stuff from France, Switzerland, Austria or Germany is rarly exported und our US-Friends just get the china-made factory stuff like Zwilling, "Messermeister" (completly unknown in Germany) and the such? And have all the right to diss these crappy blades.
    Dont get me wrong: I love the eastern stuff too, the aesthetics and all. But over the years a i always came back to german super-thin high carbon knives as my goto-knives. And they just cost a fraction...

    Please enlighten me

    Greets Benjamin

    P.S: Please excuse my poor english, it obviously not my motherlanguage
    Hi Benjamin!

    What advertising, exactly? I can't say I've ever seen an advertisement for any Japanese knives other than Shun, which doesn't really count.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Benuser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Amstelveen, The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,871
    Messermeister are the export series by Burgvogel, Solingen.

  7. #7
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    3,973
    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1071 View Post
    Hi
    I noticed that this forum is very fokused on japanese cutlery or imitation/interpretation of it? I mean, there a so many wondeful knifmakers and fanastic knifecompanies all around the world that get no notice here. I mean not at all! Is there any specific reason? Is because people think japanese cutlery is superior op all other (thats what advertisment tells us, but i see hordes of japanes tourist buying loads and loads of swiss and german cutlery here in europe, so that hardly can be true).
    Or is it that all the good stuff from France, Switzerland, Austria or Germany is rarly exported und our US-Friends just get the china-made factory stuff like Zwilling, "Messermeister" (completly unknown in Germany) and the such? And have all the right to diss these crappy blades.
    Dont get me wrong: I love the eastern stuff too, the aesthetics and all. But over the years a i always came back to german super-thin high carbon knives as my goto-knives. And they just cost a fraction...

    Please enlighten me

    Greets Benjamin

    P.S: Please excuse my poor english, it obviously not my motherlanguage
    I am one of the partial "imitators" of Japanese made knives and here is why I do it.

    Japanese culture makes a special emphasis on efficiency, be it in sports, arts or trades. For instance, by selecting a profile in a knife that allows efficient cutting, by choosing a steel that gets very sharp and can be hardened to high RCs, by giving a knife a thin geometry (some makers) you get a knife that will cut very well. There are subtle differences among knives from different makers, but in general the consensus wold be that Japanese knives outperform European knives.

    Efficiency and performance is worth imitation, and building upon. I personally picked a few things from Japanese makers and few things from American makers. Zero from German or French makers.

    Kitchen knives are like cars. A simple car with get you from point A to point B, but you can put a simple car on a race track. European makers can make whatever claims they like, but until their knives prove themselves, it's all talk. When I look at some knives, I see how they are ground and know what they are capable of.

    Note that many people on this forum are professional users and capable about evaluating a knife. So, many are Japanosentric for a good reason.

    M

    PS: Do I personally think that Japanese knives are best in the world, no. But they are worth imitating and build and improve upon.

    BTW: in the links in the next after mine post, the profiles are either copied from Japanese or pretty off.

    I didn't take it as insult. I am just explaining that people copy things for a reason, typically because it is a good design or a feature.


    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made, in a narrow field.
    -Niels Bohr

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    113
    Thanks fpr your kind replies
    Concerning the steel: There are also many different steels in use. They dont hav these fancy names. They haver rather technical descriptions like 1.3505.

    For example
    http://www.messerkontor.eu/KOCHMESSE...1cm::2358.html (okay bad example, also japanocentric)
    http://www.koraat-knives.at/ (this guy even casts a costum steel, depending on the purpose of the knife)
    http://www.messerkontor.eu/KOCHMESSE...lzg::2003.html
    http://www.messerkontor.eu/KOCHMESSE...3_942_944.html
    http://www.messerkontor.eu/KOCHMESSE...::594_775.html

    Just to name a few...

    P.S. No Banjo here, but Ukulele.....

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    113
    @Marco
    Thank you for your answer. I know "imitator" is a poor choice of words, i just did not know how to say ist in other words. It was in no way meant as an insult, i am sorry i you took it as such.
    All you say ist true. But all the japanese steels have euro equivanlents. And these equivalents are used by knivemakers and they harden it to the same degree than the japanese makers. They also got very thin geometries an consequently cut well. Again: i am not talking about the buttersteel-everday-zwilling knife here, but handforged artisan knives. Thats what puzzles me.

    Greets
    Benjamin

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    1,405
    there aren't many euro knife makers that make enough kitchen knives. and when there are, they don't really spark our interest the way japanese style knives do.

    =D

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts