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Thread: Heavy Chef's Knife - A New Project

  1. #11
    Yes it would be. As I said before, I naturally gravitate away from pure convex, so I will use convex as a reference point, and try tweaking the grind at the heel and other areas where it could improve performance in my opinion.

    I am actually thinking to give this knife profile of my typical chefs's - flatter with a pointy tip. I think if balance point is not too far forward, tip can be used efficiently.

    M


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  2. #12
    Senior Member Justin0505's Avatar
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    Personally, I find this style of knife among the most interesting. Eventhough I understand how it works, it still does feel magical when a thick, heavy knife seems to glide through hard, dense product like it was warm butter.

    Will you grind this fully symmetrical? One of the things that I think is interesting about the kato grind is how asymmetrical it is -almost like a convex single bevel.
    "I gotta tell ya, this is pretty terrific. Ha hahaha, YEAH!" - Moe (w/ 2 knives). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVt4U...layer_embedded

  3. #13
    Senior Member zitangy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by don View Post
    A heavy chef's and not a western deba? Or maybe the distinction is in my head only.
    Whilst exploring for a Western Deba and a heavier chefs knife separately,( thicker and clocks in abt 240 grams max weight fo which is my preference for a chefs knife), the Tojiro concept for their deba seems to fit your statement exactly. Size is abt the same as their regular gyuto . thicker spine with adn comes with a convex grind. Thats what attracts me. Other makers makes their western deba with higher blade height.

    Wuesthof.. I remember that they do make a wide chefs knife.. Higher blade height adn thicker spine. Its a shame that they didnt grind it convexly. The other Wuesthof as mentioned by Marko .....with splitter capability is a different knife altogether.

    have fun..
    D

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin0505 View Post
    Personally, I find this style of knife among the most interesting. Eventhough I understand how it works, it still does feel magical when a thick, heavy knife seems to glide through hard, dense product like it was warm butter.

    Will you grind this fully symmetrical? One of the things that I think is interesting about the kato grind is how asymmetrical it is -almost like a convex single bevel.
    I think the magic is in convex and distal taper. Most weight on a heavy chefs is at the heel, while the rest is ground just a notch thicker than a regular gyuto (because of a very prominent distal taper). A Wuesthoff splitter was like that too, over a half of the blade was used for general cutting and there geometry was thinner, and the heel was for splitting. That knife wasn't a match to a J. knife as a cutter, but same concept was applied there.

    I am going to grind symmetrical and test cut as I grind. I have another idea, but I might try that on a separate knife - I don't have to waste the only blank if it doesn't work.

    As for asymmetrical grind, I sometimes think it's by accident rather than design. I have seen knives from the same makers where sometimes the bevel felt a little more prominent on one or another side. I find that it would be easier for me to grind knives for left-hand use than right-hand, even though most of knives I make are for right hand use. Somehow my muscle memory works better for one than another, and I need to compensate.

    M


    "If there’s something worth doing, it’s worth overdoing.” - An US saying.

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  5. #15
    And now the $1000 question...

    240mm or 270mm?

    Ideally I would like to hear from folks who tried both of them and found preference of one over the other.

    M


    "If there’s something worth doing, it’s worth overdoing.” - An US saying.

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  6. #16
    Here is a tentative plan of action.

    I will make two heavy chef's with different geometries. Length either 240 or 270.

    WIP pics will be available on my Blog, while here I will post just the summary pics.

    At the completion, video comparison of both will be made.

    After that, both will be send for testing to a pro kitchen.

    I look forward to the test, as my scimitar project has been on hold because I can't decide on geometry for it. The couple Dexters that I have are too thin for my liking, so hopefully I will learn enough about convex this time to apply it in my other knives, like the scimitar.

    Other specialty knives - single bevel boning knives and slicers I have been working on. Grinding those is not without issues - steel warps if the grind is not symmetrical, but I got some good ideas how keep them straight, so when I have more time, I will do 2.0 slicer. Boning knives are production-ready.

    M


    "If there’s something worth doing, it’s worth overdoing.” - An US saying.

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  7. #17
    i find the 240 most versatile, and more common, sometimes a 270 can feel limited because of the long length whereas 240 i can usually use anywhere on anything...

  8. #18
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    270 is better IMO gives more room to accommodate the grind.

    I also never feel like the poster above if I go shorter then 270 then Id rather use a petty or small suji but different strokes for different folks. Big knives in small spaces never bothered me though.

    This knife you are designing seems similar to the a-type and in the past the 270 was just a better knife then the 240 because you gain height over the heel and a better transition to a thin tip.

  9. #19
    I will start with 270mm and see what knife it will turn out. Some things can be thought of before hand, some thing become clearer during the grinding process, and some after the knife is finished (usually too late to make changes, but version 2.0 will incorporate that afterthought)

    I typically have stuff to cut near by (onions, carrots, potatoes, sweet potatoes), so I grind, put an edge, cut, analyze, and so forth. This is a new territory and I will try to get a working prototype from the first shot, so I will have to rely on this approach extensively.

    Compare to the thickness of heavy chef's, my typical knives (by no mean lasers) are very thin.

    M


    "If there’s something worth doing, it’s worth overdoing.” - An US saying.

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  10. #20
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    I have transitioned from thin knives to all thick ones. My latest (watanabe pro) is close resemblance to this concept. Mighty in every sense of the word. tall throughout most of the blade length so it just looks massive, I would put it akin to a gradually shrinking short cleaver with a gyuto tip. I felt like it might have actually been too tall, but in actual usage you adjust to its size and just blow right through food without ever having to think about the knife, just the task at hand. it appears the grind is gradual from spine to half way then tapers to a zero edge with an unpronounced smooth shoulder. Asymmetrical but mildly so. Distal taper is also gradual with no area aggressively ground. Tip gets skinny only the last bit because the gradual taper allows the pointy end to be useful without sacrificing its robustness by a strongly tapered thin tip.
    If I were to change this particular knife I would make it slightly less wide (55mm) slightly less length (260mm) and lower the tip to make it an all around 'medium-large' and not a straight up large.

    This is a very interesting project as not too many options for a genuine workhorse but highly tuned performance. It seems 'sports coups' are all the craze, I don't care for them and my skinny ones never came out of the knife roll very much if at all once I moved to a 'sports sedan'

    what I value is a tough steel that lasts, but in the same token is easy to sharpen and maintain a usable edge. That's asking for two polarizing properties but a balance should be able to be struck somewhere. also optimal hardness pushed to the edge without being brittle/chippy then taken one step back to give leeway for some toughness.

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