Best grind on a production knife?

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ar11

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Playing around with a yusuke, I'm digging the grind, definitely behaves a bit differently when cutting than my other lower end knives. Now I'm curious what people see at the best cutters out of box.
 
Ignoring edge sharpness, edge retention, and profile, the best grinds I've seen in terms of falling through food are the Sakai Yusuke "extra thick" from bluewayjapan on eBay, and the Konosuke Fujiyama series.
 
Factory grind, mass produced? Small "batch knives"? Midtechs? It's hard to say no matter what class you mean, but I'm very fond of DT ITK, Carter SFGZ, and the Misono Dragon.
 
This is a subject I'm still trying to wrap my head around...but I've heard several knowledgeable people remark on the quality of the grind on the Suisin Inox Honyaki series. Most esp on the consistency of the grind on these knives over time. 2 different dimensions of your question though.
 
Sorry should have clarified, falling through food without much sticktion (sp?) and minimal steering. I haven't handled many knives, but hear people talking constantly about messed up grinds which diminishes performance.
 
i propose you simply reword your question. substituting "your favorite" inplace of "the best". theres too many diverse opinions, with different preferences for how we like our grinds, and what we consider to be good cutters.
maybe more like, what is your favorite production knife in terms of a good grind and ootb cutting ability?
 
Sakai Yusuke are definitly up there but it is tough not to mention Tadatsuna as well.
 
Kochi migaki and Watanabe pro have the least steering of the knives I've tried. I just sliced a case of tomatoes and they look like they were done on a machine, no wedgies.
 
What the heck does the OP mean by production knife? One grind is not necessarily better than another.
 
What the heck does the OP mean by production knife?

I think he means highly produced/non-custom knives. And while I agree that grind preferences are very personal there are some knives that are obviously better at most tasks than others. For example if I give you a F. Dick chef knife and a Watanabe gyuto the Watanabe is going to be better for most tasks than the F. Dick.
 
maybe i need to try a carbon heiji...

they rule. but no more than the semi-stainless Gesshin (I have a brand new carbon direct ordered from Heiji and a brand new semi-stainless Gesshin Heiji in my rotation, right now).
 
I'm not sure I understand the distinction?

Not sure I do either, but think the Heiji being more convexed caused more wedging when chopping. I think this worked in it's favor push cutting. In the end, both knives had great geometry but I don't think I've found anything yet that could chop as cleanly as the Shig with a stock grind nor have I found anything that push cut as cleanly as the Heiji stock grind.

Understand that I know basically nothing and this is only based on my memory--which I think I lost sometime a long time ago. In other words an educated guess at the reasoning but personal fact for me on the actual cutting results.

Kato is it's own beast and therefore not included here...:biggrin:
 
Heijis are slightly concave, from the edge to the end of the secondary bevel, so they don't wedge unless you are cutting something very hard that is taller than the secondary bevel. My Shig experience is similar (though I don't believe they are concave, they are quite thin until about half way up the blade face).
 
concave grind, how the hell do you maintain that???

Tinh and I, and we've talked about this a good bit, have come to the conclusion that you don't. Takedas are the same way, for instance, but the secondary bevel is smaller so it's less noticeable. One can come close by changing the angle on the Heijis many times, so that you are thinning the last quarter inch with the blade completely horizontal, and I have my well-used 240 semi cutting close to the new one, this way. I always figured that Heiji used a wheel to grind it (you can feel the concavity with your fingers, it's not something that is imagined), but a recent email with Jon more than suggests that Heiji isn't using wheels, so perhaps they do it the hard way?
 
Heijis are slightly concave, from the edge to the end of the secondary bevel, so they don't wedge unless you are cutting something very hard that is taller than the secondary bevel. My Shig experience is similar (though I don't believe they are concave, they are quite thin until about half way up the blade face).

OK, that makes sense...concave at the base and then the big convex bevel right? I do cut quite a bit of large hard items--especially big onions and squash and these were definitely the items that I remember as wedging. My Shig was thin most of the way up the blade face--perhaps even more than 1/2. It was also thinner at the spine than other Shig's in general. Again, for chopping it was the closest I've seen to perfect. Sorry to derail, but thanks for the explanation ER, helps a lot.
 
No, it feels pretty concave up until the "shinogi," but who knows? my wife can tell you that my fingers aren't necessarily the best things to "measure" delicate items: :-\ (I'm a conservatory trained clarinetist, and feeling slightly different things is very important to wind instruments, so I think I'm right).

A knife thin at the spine is going to cut things like hard squash better than knives thick at the spine, regardless of over all grind. that's just physics.
 
I believe you, but can't quite see it--my eyes aren't much better than my memory...I still see a fairly large bit of convexity though some may just call it a shoulder. I do think I see the concave bit near the edge though...

Heiji:
P6100455_zpscdd86e29.jpg


Shig:
shigchoil_zpsa44b6127.jpg
 
Those both have significant concavity, or at least they aren't convex. Trace straight lines from the flats to the edge, at the point they diverge from the flat. I'm convinced that Americans (and I was born in Tenn. and raised in Florida) don't know what concavity and convexity are.
 
Which of Gator's knife profiles looks like the ones posted? Hint: it ain't the convex one.

5d554029.jpg
 
I have a 240mm semi-stainless Heiji cutting about as well as a stock one. I have to take the absolute edge thickness way thinner, to make up for the grind difference. It's a real pain, especially since I'm getting arthritis in my right thumb. Worth it, though.
 

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