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Thread: 1st Nakiri Choices

  1. #11
    You might be surprised to hear that an economical knife with a stone or two is considered middle-ground around here

    The advice is sound though - you will eventually end up with a poor-performing knife as you continue refreshing the edge on something like the Chef's Choice.

    Another alternative would be to get yourself a leather/balsa/whatever strop and then mail in the knife to your nearest *good* sharpener (there are a few whom folks can suggest) every year or so.
    Len

  2. #12
    I've had a chance to use every ChefsChoice model ever made over the years. If you stay off that first stage as much as possible and only use the 2nd and 3rd, you won't remove that much metal. Any sharpening device is going to remove some and many beginner sharpeners need to do more thinning, not less. Several of the more recent CC models have edge stropping wheels for the last stage that work well for quick touch ups. I would particularly recommend the Asian knife sharpening model for a nakiri.

    I do most of my sharpening by hand but I have a small fortune in stones I have accumulated over the years. For the average hone cook a CC is a major improvement over the dull knives they normally work with.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Justin0505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjd1 View Post
    I appreciate the feedback and advice....from what I've read the CC is not as bad as you describe it....I know it is not as good as stones or an EP.....BUT I really dont want to "go down that road"....If its an appropiate analogy....I buy preground coffee...not Maxwell House either....so I dont mind spending a little extra....But coffee "folk" probably frown on someone not grinding there own beans...I dont have time to or care to....but do know its probably better.....so back to knives....

    I wasn't going to "drop" $200...that was my limit.....just want a good value with better F&F.....after some more research im leaning towards a Gesshin Uraka......

    Again I appreciate the feedback.....just alittle frustrated that "everyone" thinks everyone should hand sharpen or they should just go to WalMart and buy a Farberware set and be happy....there has to be a middle ground........and for me a CC with good value knives seems to be an OK place to be....

    Some people are perfectly happy doing things the wrong way.
    That's fine if you are happy with the results and dont want to change, it doest make your method correct or an equal alternative to doing things the right way.

    You coffee analogy doest hold up.
    These nothing wrong with putting pre-ground coffee in a coffee maker. It wont damage the coffee or the coffee maker. Can you get or make better tasting coffee? Sure, but youre not an idiot or doing anything wrong if you dont. - This is coming from a coffee snob.

    What you're doing with the cc is using a poor tool for the wrong job. And it will result in either a damged or less functional knife. That's just plain ol' nonjudgmental fact... Thats not snobbery or me telling you to go back to the faberware isle or bb&b cutlery section.

    End of the day Im happy when people buy/support good knives vs crap. So go by a sweet little riveted handle Carter and grind away with your cc... Help him put food on table and fuel in the choppa.
    "I gotta tell ya, this is pretty terrific. Ha hahaha, YEAH!" - Moe (w/ 2 knives). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVt4U...layer_embedded

  4. #14
    Wrong way? Are you type of the person - "My way or the highway"?
    The point of sharpening is to make the knife more sharp then it was before. If you take a dull knife and put it to the CC, will it achieve it? Yea. Will it ruin it temper, my guess is not (I never used one). So how come it's a wrong way? It achieves the ultimate goal without damaging the product.

    It might be not the optimal way, the knife wont get as sharp, polished, pretty or have the even finish as on the stone perhaps. But really is the knife more sharp then before?

    The wrong way would trying to sharpen a knife by cutting the concrete for example.

  5. #15
    Thank you Ruso. And if you have watched Murray Carter's sharpening videos you have seen him sharpen a knife to a very good edge on a concrete cinder block! In Africa I watched a skinner pick up a rough, totally jagged grapefruit size rock off the ground, pull his Okapi pocket knife straight up down across it a few times and proceed to remove the hide from an antelope far better than I ever could with the finest Japanese waterstone sharpened blade.

    I don't use my CC's that much but I still have several of them around here I find handy for certain uses. During hunting season I always touch up all my meat cutting knives on one before going to work. And I use a diamond surfaced steel while I'm cutting .

  6. #16
    I think the main concern here is not about the edge itself. It's about the rest of the knife behind ("above") the edge. You can have a really sharp edge and yet have a knife that doesn't work well for you in the kitchen for slicing, dicing, etc.

    Take an extreme example: an axe that you'd use for chopping wood. You can sharpen it really well and have a real keen edge on it - in fact, I'll wager it'll work better for you that way - but it'd still suck for general kitchen tasks. It's because the rest of the stuff behind the edge is too thick. It's part of what is referred to as a blade's geometry.

    Over time with a set-angle device you'll get an edge geometry that more and more resembles that of an axe. Not as extreme, but you will get thicker and thicker metal behind the edge. So you will have a sharp edge and yet will notice the knife doesn't feel and perform as it used to.

    That takes time to happen, of course. If you're okay with that, then it's no issue - just get a new knife at that time or have someone re-work it for you. Probably more cost effective to do the former though.
    Len

  7. #17
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjd1 View Post
    Just getting started in a home knife "setup"....I will be the only cook/user/eater...so light usage 2 to 3 times a week......looking to add a nakiri with wa handle.....I will be using a CC Model XV as my sharpening system (and I am aware of its limitations)...Budget is under $200.....because of CC limitations....dont want to "over buy" but would like a nice knife....carbon is OK....I like the wider profile of the Masakage's.

    I know I'm not going to get a "screaming sharp" edge with a CC....so what carbon steel is best...given these demands? What brands would you recommend?

    Thanks for the guidance!
    A Dojo 165mm nakiri and a this combo stone iis what I would get. Maybe a stone holder, too, but a damp cloth and a loaf pan works as well, Salty Dog style. The Dojo is damn nice for the price.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruso View Post
    Wrong way? Are you type of the person - "My way or the highway"?
    The point of sharpening is to make the knife more sharp then it was before. If you take a dull knife and put it to the CC, will it achieve it? Yea. Will it ruin it temper, my guess is not (I never used one). So how come it's a wrong way? It achieves the ultimate goal without damaging the product.

    It might be not the optimal way, the knife wont get as sharp, polished, pretty or have the even finish as on the stone perhaps. But really is the knife more sharp then before?

    The wrong way would trying to sharpen a knife by cutting the concrete for example.
    If just making the knife sharper than before is the goal I agree but you have to keep in mind that it is possible to do the right thing the wrong way. A professional sharpener should and would approach a particular job to get the sharpest edge within the function and design of what is being sharpened. This is to say that he or she will sharpen in a way that respects the overall design and maximize the functionality and lifespan of the knife. It doesn't have to be my way or the highway but as I said before it is possible to get the knife sharper the wrong way and in doing so one can indeed render the knife less useful than it should be. What is the advantage of that? By your own admission the CC is not the optimal way. This being the case why wouldn't one proceed with a more optimal approach if it didn't ultimately cost more and there was something to be learned or otherwise gained from it? Again, I don't disagree with you within the context of your ultimate goal but in sharpening I believe the ultimate goal should be something greater than just getting it sharper. What if there was a device that would could stick your knife in and it came out with the sharpest possible edge that lasted one cut. How useful would that be? As for sharpening with concrete you'll have to direct that question to Murray Carter.

  9. #19
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruso View Post
    Wrong way? Are you type of the person - "My way or the highway"?
    The point of sharpening is to make the knife more sharp then it was before. If you take a dull knife and put it to the CC, will it achieve it? Yea. Will it ruin it temper, my guess is not (I never used one). So how come it's a wrong way? It achieves the ultimate goal without damaging the product.

    It might be not the optimal way, the knife wont get as sharp, polished, pretty or have the even finish as on the stone perhaps. But really is the knife more sharp then before?

    The wrong way would trying to sharpen a knife by cutting the concrete for example.
    I've seen quite few knives sharpened on a CC. They are sharper than dull, but uniformly were messed up, with wonky geometry and holes in the edge.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Justin0505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruso View Post
    Wrong way? Are you type of the person - "My way or the highway"?
    The point of sharpening is to make the knife more sharp then it was before. If you take a dull knife and put it to the CC, will it achieve it? Yea. Will it ruin it temper, my guess is not (I never used one). So how come it's a wrong way? It achieves the ultimate goal without damaging the product.

    It might be not the optimal way, the knife wont get as sharp, polished, pretty or have the even finish as on the stone perhaps. But really is the knife more sharp then before?

    The wrong way would trying to sharpen a knife by cutting the concrete for example.
    Are you the type of person that doesn't read my first post? I outlined it pretty clearly, but echerub explained it fully.
    It's not "my way" is a THE way that's been around in one form or another since man started making sharp things out of steel.
    I'm also not guessing about the CC: I try to have at least a clue as to what I'm talking about before I make sassy posts... but then again, that's just my way; your's is fine too.

    I understand that "above the edge" is also above some heads...
    "I gotta tell ya, this is pretty terrific. Ha hahaha, YEAH!" - Moe (w/ 2 knives). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVt4U...layer_embedded

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