masamoto ks--just a project knife nowadays?

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chinacats

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Having recently purchased a 240 KS for the first time I think my expectations may have been a bit high. Fit and finish is acceptable on the blade--some easing but nothing smoothed, which is cool. Handle has a horn that is slightly larger than the ho wood; that said, the horn is blond with a beautiful dark stripe.

P7300628_zps04e079ad.jpg


My bigger complaint is the thickness behind the edge. When I first used the knife--tested on veggies and protein it seemed to me that it lacked a good degree of sharpness. The release was pretty good so I figured a quick sharpening session would take care of things. So to prepare for sharpening I finally gave the geometry a good inspection and found that I am going to have to do quite a bit of thinning to get this knife to perform halfway decent. The original edge wasn't as bad as I had expected though there certainly wasn't any fear of cutting myself with the 3 finger test. Again, the problem wound up being the thickness behind the edge.

I figure I will allow some time this week to work on this, but just curious if others have had the same type experiences with this knife or if I just happened to get a thick bugger. It is definitely not as bad as some knives I've seen posted here (fanatic, etc...) but it is not a pure cutter out of the box.

I am not sure if I've been spoiled by the knives I've been buying from Jon or Maxim and this is more of a norm or if again I just wound up with a bad apple? Have the folks here who love their KS's had to all go through this initially? I kind of like the idea of having to work a bit to make the knife cut to my preference, but the last few nice knives I've bought have been much better out of the box.

P8100645_zps8f408ea7.jpg


For comparison a Shig that had a similar thickness through the blade but much better behind the edge imo.

shigchoil_zpsa44b6127.jpg




All that said, I get why people say it has the perfect profile--not saying it does, but it sure is nice. :)
 
I've had a couple actually and the first one was an old one that when new it was pretty thin behing the edge and f&f was good then I got one recently while moving the older one to house duty and the new ones fit and finish wasn't as good and it was a porker behing the edge that needed thinning before making a cut. But then again maybe I'm spoiled too and they were the same only I realized more after having better knives.
 
You are not alone in your experience with the KS. I would be hesitant to purchase one new any time soon; the finish and geometry are proving to be quite inconsistent and lackluster. Glad I got mine three years ago. The last two I handled, purchased by coworkers on my recommendation, were both incredibly poor by comparison and left me making apologies.

The popularity of the profile has spawned a number of clones, and at this point I'd check one of them out before buying another KS.
 
I keep hearing this more and more often. Sucks, cuz these were a benchmark for a hot minute. Appears they're trying to keep up with supply rather than maintaining some type of standard. Seems to happen all too often across many fields, unfortunately...
 
Sorry that you came up on the wrong side of a good thing:/

I'm not so much bummed as curious. I got a good deal by snagging this off Rakuten so I kind of feel like maybe I should have to put a little work in; I may not have the same attitude had I paid retail or close.

It would suck to be new to J-knives though, buy one and kind of say meh to the whole deal without trying something else or fixing it. Definitely sounds as if this is a more recent phenomenon with these, kind of sucks.
 
im pretty sure most masamoto ks are going to be thick behind the edge ootb. their geometry is interesting though. if you can preserve the factory geometry while thinning it the food release should be pretty nice. yeah, ultimately they are project knives though. and considering how crowded the market is in the 300-400 dollar range, its really hard for me to pull the trigger on one. plus the fact that theyre not very tall knives to begin with so their lifespan is kinda short, if you sharpen often. ofcourse the awesome rakuten prices can make the knife worthwhile i guess.
 
Half of the reason I didn't jump on that rakuten sale- it seemed a little too good to be true. These might have been from a extremely less than savory batch. Still doesn't explain some of the F/F issues that seem to be popping up lately.
 
Is not it quite expensive for a "project" knife? 0_o
 
if you can preserve the factory geometry while thinning it the food release should be pretty nice.

Agreed, the food release is pretty good initially so that will be the goal.


Half of the reason I didn't jump on that rakuten sale- it seemed a little too good to be true. These might have been from a extremely less than savory batch. Still doesn't explain some of the F/F issues that seem to be popping up lately.

Not sure though I did notice that they popped up at exactly the same time that JCK got them back in stock. That said, it wouldn't surpise me if they were a 'lower grade', but I'm cool with saving $100 bucks and doing some work myself. Again, I'd have really been bummed had I paid more and received the same blade. I figure I'm already going to wind up rehandling and I think that would've been he case either way--the D-handle is fine, but seems to be made for a smaller knife than a 240 gyuto.


Is not it quite expensive for a "project" knife? 0_o

I don't think so, I paid ~225 with shipping which is quite a bit less than I've paid for any other knife recently. Those knives have all cost more butl been much more badass out of box. My impression initially was that the better knives may need more work to customize but my experience has been different. I know with some tools the final edge is really left up to the user so not much work goes into it, I think that with knives the makers realize that the buyer's expectations are somewhat different.
 
I'm not so much bummed as curious. I got a good deal by snagging this off Rakuten so I kind of feel like maybe I should have to put a little work in; I may not have the same attitude had I paid retail or close.

It would suck to be new to J-knives though, buy one and kind of say meh to the whole deal without trying something else or fixing it. Definitely sounds as if this is a more recent phenomenon with these, kind of sucks.

Spine shots of your KS seems thicker than mine which was purchased June 2009.
Also - "Your Masamoto KS-3124 Wa Gyuto 240mm is Honba Duke finished by Masamoto
craftsman already." - requested because I do not know (still) how to thin and sharpen well.
My KS is on Stefan's Handle Gallery - page 33 post 321.
The bottom 2 pics sort of show the spine and choil
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/246-Stefan-s-Handle-Gallery/page33
 
Spine shots of your KS seems thicker than mine which was purchased June 2009.
Also - "Your Masamoto KS-3124 Wa Gyuto 240mm is Honba Duke finished by Masamoto
craftsman already." - requested because I do not know (still) how to thin and sharpen well.

Geezr, sorry for the confusion/ignorance on my part, but not quite sure what you are saying about Honba Duke finished--did you request special finishing on your blade? Very good looking knife btw.
 
I sure don't know a lot, but...
it seems the KS really just has a good profile.
nobody around here likes d handles, or lusts after white #2 with average HT.
Among the Japanese chefs i have questioned, Masamoto is not a brand they recommend with any enthusiasm.
If the KS is a project knife to begin with, because the OOTB geometry kinda sucks, why not just buy an Ashi or Yusuke and modify the profile for a fraction of the price?
It's not that hard to take some belly out of a knife and correct the overall geometry with a quick thinning session, IMO.
 
Chinacat, your ks choil shot looks very different than mine. I can't take good picture as yours; however, this is my ks choil shot to compare with....
your ks

my ks
 
Chinacat, your ks choil shot looks very different than mine. I can't take good picture as yours; however, this is my ks choil shot to compare with....
your ks

my ks

Charles, yours looks like it would cut much better than mine. Is it new and have you thinned it or is that stock?
 
Charles, yours looks like it would cut much better than mine. Is it new and have you thinned it or is that stock?
mine is old stock ks gyuto, I purchased about 4 months ago. the F/F is not perfect but very good over all! it is new, never thinned....
 
I think the very cheap price from Rakuten got something to do with this.
 
are the pictures above both stainless knives? carbon knives?

Mine is new KS-3124 (white 2 carbon); I take from what Charles is saying that his is the same only a few years older. Grind looks to be completely different 'eh?
 
My first was awesome from jck and my second needed thinning and love from rakuten. I didn't really put the two together
 
Second one is thin but very flat, mine was both thick at the edge and flat for too long into it. Yours will cut great if you thin it that last half inch into the edge, will have better release than the second one. Still need to sort mine out properly.
 
Woah- I'd be hard pressed to admit that was the same breed of knife if I wasn't given the info beforehand.

Youve never had this situation where you check chick's facebook [or other such website] pictures and even though its same girl youre seeing different person in every photo? Ranging from extremely hot to extremely not? :tease:

I think photo lies a little bit in this case, but the first one sure is a porker. As will said, the last cm needs cracking up.
 
Youve never had this situation where you check chick's facebook [or other such website] pictures and even though its same girl youre seeing different person in every photo? Ranging from extremely hot to extremely not?

Awesome. :lol2: :doublethumbsup:
 
Second one is thin but very flat, mine was both thick at the edge and flat for too long into it. Yours will cut great if you thin it that last half inch into the edge, will have better release than the second one. Still need to sort mine out properly.

Thanks Will, kind of what I was thinking I saw...keep the convexity and yet seriously thin the last bit. I was thinking more like an inch, but will start with what you and Mike say--last 1/2 in or so. Looks like a very good learning opportunity.

Cheers!
 
i don't really see the draw of the 'legendary' ks. it's narrow and average steel, too pointy. plus i think the VG series is the one with magical profile.
chinacats i'm under the belief that any new knife needs tweaking unless you bought custom and had them grind exactly the way you want. some just need more initial work than others. but yeah, $300 for a project knife is pretty ridiculous.
 
I love my KS profile. I also am a fan of white steel. The Masamoto isn't the best of the many white steel knives I've had or have. Its retention is lackluster. My KS has been around for a while. I got it from Vertigo, further tuned it, and had Mike slap an awesome handle on it. It's a beast.
 
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