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TheDispossessed

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The peaked interest in rakuten of late, and the batch of seemingly second quality KS's on the site got me thinking. I like to save money, hell i'm a line cook in New York, i'm broke as ****. However, I really believe, in as much as possible, in supporting small vendors within the reach of our community here. Theoretically, you could buy that knife, for a little less from some faceless shop online, or even direct from the maker, but remember that someone worked their ass of to bring you the knowledge of that product in the first place. And more than likely, that person won't sell you a lemon.
 
im no noob, but i like customer support alot. i like knowing background info on a maker. i like having a vendor i can talk to about the best way to sharpen a new knife. plus the quality control thats involved with some of the more mom and pop vendors here is even more worth it. rakuten IMO is a good alternative to something like sur la table or cutery and more. not that i do business with either of those places.
 
I've heard a few stories of Rakuten sales not going smoothly, and the correspondences through rough translations can't help.....
 
As one recent offender I'll offer another perspective. I've purchased twice from Rakuten...both purchases were very easy transactions. While I agree with supporting kkf vendors, the first purchase I made was a Shig when no one else had them available. My recent KS purchase was a matter of trying a KS or not--the knife has priced it's way out of my current knife budget so when I saw an opportunity to purchase one for 225 US including shipping, why not go for it?

I've bought multiple items from kkf vendors and will continue to do so...nothing makes me happier than opening a package wrapped by Sara.

As to Rakuten, my first purchase (Shig) I couldn't have been happier with, this time I wound up buying a knife that needed work. Actually as much as I have heard about Japanese tools coming tabula rasa this is the first time that I've purchased one that annoyed me to use out of the box. Knife is currently being tuned to my needs and I'm sure that there will be more personal satisfaction from that than buying one that is perfect to begin with and knowing it will only get worse.:laugh:

Anyway, cheers to the original point of this thread, just wanted to point out that sometimes there are variables that can weigh heavily in the other direction.
 
I would be happier if we have more Oz friendly vendors on KKF.
 
me too i prefer to support small shops and makers, and i will continue to do so. however, chinacats' statement is true for me as well: i purchased a KS on rakuten because buying it elsewhere was out of my budget. either i was lucky, or i simply don't see and fell the difference, but i really like the knife. it is my first wa-handled knife... oh, yes, it is a rather thin handle, and F&F definitely aren't perfect (transition between wooden handle and ferrule), but my plan is to replace the handle with one from stefan, so i don't mind... i like it, even OOTB. but i definitely don't have as much experience as the crazy folks on this forum, but i am willing to learn! :lol2:
 
no judgement meant towards anyone buying off rakuten, etc. i actually think it's really fun to peruse that site, like a treasure hunt. and realistically, those shops are run by people too, probably decent folks with families etc.
 
being in Australia, I wish I could support the local retailer that basically sells everything $rakuten*2.
 
I would buy a lot more from our usa vendors if the shipping is cheaper. but last time my wife was in NY she got a package from Jon to her hotel :D
 
Echoing what others have said, I'd buy more from vendors here if I didn't get shafted by the UK Imports system every time I buy something. Paying $100 to the UK government for a $300 knife is something I don't want to do too often
 
same here and it happens every time. 24% tax and if it is over 150€ then 30%, which is crazy amount of money :(
 
if my wife was in NYC and brought me a knife, i guess the knife would definitely not be the most expensive thing that she'd bring home... :biggrin:

when buying my KS on r*kuten, the seller would only indicate the real value of the knife on the shipping papers, so no chance of slipping through customs:
+8,5% customs
+20% import tax
+10€ service charge

this ended up as +35% :shocked3::shocked3::shocked3: on the original price! but hey, it was still cheaper than buying anywhere else...
 
I hear the European guys. Buying from US you have to add insane shipping prices (not the vendor fault) + taxes on the border (neither a vendors fault). Not many US vendors will run a risk of marking the package as a gift and put the value of $5. While most eBay or Japanese places will have no trouble in doing so. This basically eliminates the risk of taxes on the border by 95%. In addition the shipping cost via EMS is so much cheaper then USPS.
And the local choice is quite limited here.
All in all I would gladly buy from US/Local stores, but unfortunately limited choices or added insane costs makes it hard. Next time I visit US I will try to hotel order few Items I am hunting for, but are not urgent ones.
 
I believe JCK is by far the best for countries where there is an import tax based on the value of the knife. :)
 
the more i think about it, the more i am wondering if i can manage to convince my wife that buying from european makers such as tilman leder and will catcheside is not spending money but saving money (customs, tax, etc.)!!! :lol2:
 
Also, it doesn't help foreign customers (I am in Canada), that if I order a knife from the states that was made in Japan not only am I paying the duty as the item crosses the border into Canada, but presumably the American vendor has had to pay duty to bring the knife into the US. A quick google search tells me that the rate to import knives from Japan into the US is 15%.
I personally don't like the idea of paying 15% extra to the US government because my knife had a short stay on California or wherever.

Having said that, I am a past and future customer of at least one of the vendors on here, I absolutely love my Gesshin 8k stone, and plan to add a 400, and 2k to the line up as soon as my budget allows. I did however feel a twinge of guilt as I ordered my new gyuto from Nakaya Heiji direct, but the significant difference in price was just too much to overcome. It's true that I'd probably never have heard of Nakaya Heiji had it not been for Jon, and I certainly would not be able to sharpen nearly as well were it not for his AMAZING and unequalled sharpening videos on youtube.
 
the more i think about it, the more i am wondering if i can manage to convince my wife that buying from european makers such as tilman leder and will catcheside is not spending money but saving money (customs, tax, etc.)!!! :lol2:

:doublethumbsup:
 
the more i think about it, the more i am wondering if i can manage to convince my wife that buying from european makers such as tilman leder and will catcheside is not spending money but saving money (customs, tax, etc.)!!! :lol2:


Yes 100%. I haven't got a Catcheside but I've got 2 knives and 2 rehandles/tune-ups from Tilman and his prices are very very reasonable
 
I've personally had no issues with dealing with Japanese vendors directly, and I'm not quite sure why it's seen negatively. The folks running these shops are vendors like any other, they just happen to be overseas (and closer to the producers of the knives we like so much!) I've visited a few shops in Japan over the years, and they're small shops like many here. If it happens to result in a lower price for the end customer, where's the harm?

I've bought from a number of vendors here, and I'm very happy to support them, but why feel bad about giving business overseas as well?
 
yeah, totally get what all you guys are saying.
i have a tendency to rant online late at night after work and a few beers.
hell, the other week i wrote on fb something about not liking IPAs, i'm sipping a firestone union jack right now and loving it.
 
i know this will probably reflect poorly upon me, but i also hope it adds something to the discussion. This kind of going direct to the maker does really effect businesses like mine (and many others). We spend a lot of time and effort searching for new makers/brands, helping develop them (both in name recognition, but also, in our case, with improvements to the design, workflow, profiles, heat treatments, etc). Small businesses like mine also have many additional costs associated with running this kind of business... Fluctuating exchange rates (this effects inventory pricing in both the long and short term), customs and duties (which often times end users do not end up paying), shipping costs, storage costs, loss of goods due to damage or unforeseen problems, customer service, and so on. I dont feel like many people who go direct to the makers consider many of these things, nor do they consider how businesses like us may feel (its very personal to many of us and really does hurt our feelings and our business). It also effects how we go about sharing information with the end users (as we often feel like we cant trust anyone with anything important after these kinds of things happen). In the long run, this kind of attitude limits the new makers and brands that are introduced, as companies are less likely to search out and share new things for fear of this happening again. Also, in japan, though the makers will never say this to their customers, this kind of thing puts them in a very uncomfortable situation, as they then end up competing with the vendors they have chosen to use.

As a last point, bargain hunting can also cause serious problems in the long run. Though i truly understand the value of a dollar (i was a line cook before), and i know not everyone is swimming in money, bargain hunting encourages price wars amongst competitors. While in small doses this can be very healthy, many have a tendency to take things out of control. This severely effects the craftsmen making the knives (who are first to loose profits in these cases), and also can very negatively effect brand images that the makers have worked so hard for. Shigefusa is a great example of this. A while back, many people in Japan would frequently talk about how online price wars in the west brought shigefusa prices to the same level as their wholesale prices in Japan. The knives were sold at nearly break even points, as the pricing competition had become so fierce. People would often say how they felt bad this was happening. Lately, it has been a lot better, as they have done a better job at vendor control for the most part. This has happened with a number of other brands over the years as well. This is not an effect that customers here often notice, but it is significant... not too dissimilar from ichimonji stopping all shipments to the US based on a very bad experience with one US based vendor.

I hope this does not come across nearly as rude as i feel it may. I just hope these are things that maybe people will consider more in the future.
 
well folks there you have it. Jon is no bullshitter and he's educated all of us over the years. Imagine not having a place like JKI, really think about it.
 
fully agree with you, jon! in austria/germany bargain hunting has become a serious problem to small, one-man- or family-run businesses. and some big ones even encourage you: there currently is an advertising campaign by a big chain for electronic devices which uses the main slogan "greed is good / thrifty is nifty / it is wiser to be a miser". you can almost watch small stores die... am*zon is no help to book stores, online shopping in general makes running a business tougher (unless you're an online store yourself, but even that is quite challenging)... i guess times change, but i hear ya! this is why i generally prefer to support small stores and makers - with one or the other exception every now and then.
 
I agree with alot of points, I often buy cookbooks at the cookbook store for 59.99 sticker price (Canada), instead of on Amazon for 29.99. But, when I asked how much Astrance was, 109$ before tax, I thought 52$ on Amazon sounded pretty good, sometimes it sucks, you can't compete with that, I'm not rich (even though I'm buying 100$ books.) I feel sorry for small businesses trying to compete today, I try to support when I can, but sometimes you can't spend 1000$ on 9 cookbooks at the local.
 
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