Quantcast
Gesshin Uraku, what's the steel? - Page 8
Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 92

Thread: Gesshin Uraku, what's the steel?

  1. #71
    Senior Member Crothcipt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    wyoming, closer to nowhere than somewhere.
    Posts
    3,501
    But chilli pepper, not all sellers are reputable, creating the crux of the problem.
    Chewie's the man.

  2. #72
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    407
    We are all curious about metal types and have a general idea about their characteristics. White takes a keen edge, but doesn't have great edge retention. Blue doesn't have quite the edge, of white, but much better edge retention. Powdered Metal has very good edge retention. Stainless steel such as VG-10, is known for chipping.

    A person doesn't have to be member of this forum very long to realize that there is more to a knife then just the type of steel used. Profile, grind, heat treatment, are what make the knife. In other words the ability of the maker, to work with the steel. A maker can enhance characteristics of the steel or minimize them. Most of buy knifes based on the reputation of the maker, and the characteristics or traits.

    How many of us buy knifes, based on a list of details? Blue steel #2, Rockwell 61, Ice quenched, Double Bevel. I would be there are very few.

    The only way to find out if a characteristic or trait works for a cutting style, is to try the knife. It probably takes 3-4 knifes, before a person can identify preferred characteristics. A vendor such as Jon or Maxim can take the desired characteristics and match them up with a knife.

    All industries have trade secrets, methods they believe help them stay in business. Developing techniques to work with a steel, can take years. As well as finding an ideal set of sharpening stones. Why should a competitor get results of what somebody else has developed? A competitor may see the success of a product, their challenge is to develop an answer, not duplicate the product.

    Jay
    I'm a over-sized, under-educated, two onions a month, cutting fool.

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by jaybett View Post

    All industries have trade secrets, methods they believe help them stay in business. Developing techniques to work with a steel, can take years. As well as finding an ideal set of sharpening stones. Why should a competitor get results of what somebody else has developed? A competitor may see the success of a product, their challenge is to develop an answer, not duplicate the product.

    Jay
    Some members, obviously, think that this is irrelevant.
    Michael
    "Don't you know who he is?"

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by jaybett View Post
    We are all curious about metal types and have a general idea about their characteristics. White takes a keen edge, but doesn't have great edge retention. Blue doesn't have quite the edge, of white, but much better edge retention. Powdered Metal has very good edge retention. Stainless steel such as VG-10, is known for chipping.
    This is what i mean... while most of us "know" this, i can easily find exceptions to every single one of these statements (i.e. white with better edge retention than most blue steels, blue with finer edge taking and ease of sharpening than most white, non brittle vg-10, etc.).

  5. #75
    Senior Member ChiliPepper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    169
    Quote Originally Posted by mhlee View Post
    Read the posts of makers and vendors.
    Yeah yeah...

  6. #76
    Senior Member ChiliPepper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    169
    Quote Originally Posted by Crothcipt View Post
    But chilli pepper, not all sellers are reputable, creating the crux of the problem.
    Agree 100%, it's kinda what I tried to say in my initial post: if you're a reputable seller that knows its stuff and even goes the extra mile for his customers then in order to make my choice I would rather talk with that seller than relying just on the steel type.
    This, in my humble opinion, pretty much equals to saying that if the seller discloses just the steel type it is not that much of a loss. A dodgy competitor might try to copy it but the steel alone will not be sufficient to create a similar product, quality wise. Interesting thread by the way

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by ChiliPepper View Post
    Agree 100%, it's kinda what I tried to say in my initial post: if you're a reputable seller that knows its stuff and even goes the extra mile for his customers then in order to make my choice I would rather talk with that seller than relying just on the steel type.
    This, in my humble opinion, pretty much equals to saying that if the seller discloses just the steel type it is not that much of a loss. A dodgy competitor might try to copy it but the steel alone will not be sufficient to create a similar product, quality wise. Interesting thread by the way
    I kept wanting to stay out, but it's amazing how much trouble people have putting two and two together.

    Dave's post perfectly addresses your point. He went through the trouble of finding a particular line-up of stones and the stones were picked up by other vendors. Then people went and bought from those vendors for a saving of $5. The fact is, not everyone does what you claim you would do, hence the need to keep some things secret. You'd have zero gain from knowing the information while others would stand to lose from it becoming public. How does it not make sense that they don't share that information?

  8. #78
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    550
    My friend at work needed a workhorse, in stainless. Jon referred him the 270 Gesshin Uraku, he loves it. My friend is 50 years old, and has been cooking since he was a teenager, pro user, sharpens himself on king 1000/6000, doesn't care what steel it is. Not that it is wrong that you do, it's just that he just wanted a well performing knife, he got burnt going to that other site on a different brand that was stainless and a bit cheaper.

    So he phoned Jon, and asked him for a well performing knife, and that is what he got. I asked Jon for a good all around cutter, wasn't concerned about stainless or blade maintenance, and edge retention wasn't a huge issue as I have several gyutos in the lineup and rotate between sharpening. Just wanted a nice feeling sharp cutter, Jon referred me a Gengetsu, and I got everything and more Jon suggested. Jon is a man who will turn down a sale if it's not right for you, he will not upsell you just because he wants your money, but if you ask the right questions, and most importantly, respect his advice, you will end up with a knife that will make you happy, no lemons here. Because trust me, listen to Jon, he knows more than you do about knives, especially the ones he is selling. This might sound like a blatent plug for Jon, because it is, he is one of the best if not the best vendors of knives out there. Just watch his videos where he looks like he has the hots for his products, you can see the guy's freaking heart, that's not just good acting.

    Also, when our package arrived together, I had to weigh the damn thing to find out which was mine, so I could get it open to use. The packaging from Sarah was so beautifully done that I felt if I opened my friends knife he would have killed me, he was floored, as was I. We got handwritten notes showing their appreciation, was very heartwarming. This is doing business like it was done in the past, and should be done. I should ask my friend at work if he would rather know the steel on his Uraku, or be 'able' to get a refund on that lemon he got from that walmart site, I bet I know the answer. Sorry for the rant, just a happy customer of the 'local ma and pa' internet knife store.

  9. #79
    Senior Member ChiliPepper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    169
    Quote Originally Posted by heirkb View Post
    I kept wanting to stay out, but it's amazing how much trouble people have putting two and two together.

    Dave's post perfectly addresses your point. He went through the trouble of finding a particular line-up of stones and the stones were picked up by other vendors. Then people went and bought from those vendors for a saving of $5. The fact is, not everyone does what you claim you would do, hence the need to keep some things secret. You'd have zero gain from knowing the information while others would stand to lose from it becoming public. How does it not make sense that they don't share that information?
    Hey heirkb I get your point but a stone's a stone and a knife's a different thing. It might indeed take less to copy someone's choice of stones and sell them for 5 bucks less thus damaging the original seller but you CAN'T sell any knife made of aebl hoping it's the same as one in the same metal made and sold by Devin. Apple with apples, otherwise we ain't putting things into perspective. But please take my postings as a chance to debate, not as full frontal attack...

  10. #80
    Senior Member ChiliPepper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    169
    If on the other hand we're saying that vendor A does all the research, invests in his knowledge and comes up with the decision (and risks) to propose a product to his customers, then vendor B copies that choice, contacts the same manifacturer and sells exactly the same product at lesser price... well... welcome to the bitchy world of capitalism.
    I would still do all I can to support vendor A because I admire dedication, passion and good customer service but that's just me, and the world is a big place.
    (but here we're getting miles away from the original subject which was the importance of disclosing just the type of steel in a knife)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •