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Lefty

Canada's Sharpest Lefty
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
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I'm opening up a thread that I hope will be often posted in, by all of us, and equally important - free flowing. Basically, I'd like for it to become a spot where we can discuss the nuances that we love/hate, our preferences in size, whether or not a bolster makes a knife feel more impressive...really anything, without having to start a new thread every time. It could be a terrible idea, but what the hell. I'm just going to post what I'm thinking and then we can discuss it. Hopefully this works. :D

First matter of business: Gyuto Length

As a home cook, who also cooks as part of my career, I often have wondered if my preference in gyutos was a strange one. I've always loved 210s, and while I had a spell of pure 240 buying, I'm now back on my "smaller is nicer" train. I blame two knives for this: my Harner "mini-gyuto", as I now call it, and an Itinomonn 210 Nashiji KU gyuto that I've been using quite a bit of late. These knives are agile, thin BTE, and just feel damn good in hand. I still love my 240s, and have one coming, but length seems to be good for two things in my mind; It's important for cutting through huge items, and occasionally for banging out large quantities (though, in my mind, that's debatable...so let's say what we think here).

Are my preferences a direct result of the number of people I cook for? Quite probably - not possibly, yes. But if the average 240 felt as easy in my hand as a 210, or even 180, then I'd just grab one of them. Right now, I'm leaning towards shorter knives. Next week...well, who knows. I'm always playing around and that's 90% of the fun of this hobby/obsession we share, isn't it? Finding what knife makes you feel good in the current moment. There's really no other way to explain having ten gyutos than to say, "I just like using a knife that makes cooking fun; Today it's my Carter, tomorrow it might be my Rodrigue".
 
Lefty, Good idea about this thread. I like you're last statement "knives:Gyutos that are fun to use". Some of you may know from my posts, I'm a very inquisitive home cook and have six gyutos ranging from Yusuke (thick/thin), Konosuke, Kramer (WS Meiji) and my white #2 Special Thin Yusuke has to be one of the most fun knives to use. Light, sharp and thin as a razor and hs great balance. Regarding size, for me the length of the Gyuto is food appropriate. Large items, larger knives, smaller, smaller knife. Just my 2 cents
 
I like my Sugimoto gyuto very much, 210mm (195mm edge), very asymmetric, easy to sharpen to a wicked edge and light as a feather. Oh, and $75. When I want a bigger knife I find myself reaching for my Chuka more than the 240mm these days. It feels like an inevitable slide towards the dark side.
 
I have to admit that while the bigger knives have their advantages (atm, my 225 Carter is a lot of fun), one of my favorites has got to be Will Catchside's 200mm "Red Shark" gyuto. Very quick and nimble, but not as light as some others. I personally like the more substantial feel of it, although as a home cook, I don't have to deal with several hundred pounds of protein in a day.
 
for me, the right gyuto length depends on what quantities i want to produce. at home, when cutting food for two people ill take a 210mm. at work, when cutting food for 150 people, a 240mm feels to short.
 
I am new in the field of 'proper' kitchen knives, but have experience with 270 suji and 210 gyuto. The suji felt a bit too long in, my hand (the other problem was that the blade had very little curve for me - what is normal with suji after all, but I did not realize that when buying). The 210 feels to be the right length for all those veggie tasks, but when used to slice meat 240 would probably feel better. Maybe even 180 would suffice for those non-meat tasks, but I find the 210 comfortable and do not want to end up with 2 gyutos. That would only change if I would have to slice meat more often (my Tanaka R2 has beautiful '3D' damascus caldding which however seems to cause more drag with meats) then I would go directly for some think light carbon 270 gyuto.
 
The two gyutos on my board at home at the moment are a yo-210 and a wa-270. This is strange to say, but realistically, I reach for the 210 more, but enjoy using the 270 more. The 210 cuts more elegantly at the moment, the 270 feels more assertive. I've intentionally left out the details of the knives, but both are great.

At work I have a 240 and a 270 and I interchange freely. If a knife is a waif, I like a bit of extra length, if it has some heft a 240 is great in a pro environment.

Its also important to consider the difference in potential profile between different lengths of knife. I like a knife with a larger flat sweet spot, that is more common on a longer knife.
 
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I tend to go for 240's but feel comfortable using 210 up to 270. Once you get into the 300's I find them unwieldy. One size I really like but is hard to find is 255.
 
240 - 255 gyutos mainly for me (all home use). I never use the 210 gyuto, but I like a 210 suji for some tasks (excellent tomato slayer), and always find uses for 150-180 pettys. Have a couple gyutos in the 270 range, but they are not in the regular rotation. Cutting board size dictates maximum gyuto length at times; the wife's board is a little small for anything beyond 240, but mine is big enough for a 270 gyuto or 300 suji.
 
When I worked/lived in a commercial kitchen, I preferred big knives 10 to 12 inches for prep. I had almost unlimited work space They were beasts in comparison to the knives we discuss here. At home now , with any number of kids insisting on hanging around me while I prep, or grown ups with wine glasses looking over my shoulder, I go for knives 210 and under for most work on my counter. In an empty kitchen and quiet house (ha) I'll pull out a 240 just for the pleasure.
 
One thing that always bugs me is square choils. It's nice and all if it's been deburred and/or eased, but if the shape in general is square, it just doesn't work for me.
 
Interesting that you should mention that size. My Bill Burke is 253 mm and it is surprisingly nimble for it's size.
 
The square choil thing doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. I have a nice callous where the bird finger meets the choil. So no big deal. The square kinda gives me a "locked in" feeling.
 
Topic Number Two: Choils

I've actually sold some of my personal knives that I really really liked because the choil shape was off. If it cramps my hand, I can't do it....
 
Wait wait, can I still talk about length? My first two chef's knives were from Henckels and I always liked the 230 and only used the 260 for heavy tasks like wedging through a cabbage etc. Then I tried guytos and funayukis in approx. 150, 165, 180, 195, 210, 225, 240, 270, and 300. 300 was much too much for me as a home cook, and the 270 I kept is a Watanabe which is also a pretty massive knife that gets very little workout. But I just like Watanabe knives, so it stays regardless of use. I also have a very little used Hiro AS 270, but I set that aside in case I ever get to making a Western handle... In 240 I kept the Hiro AS and the Blazen. Not sure why no wa gyuto made the cut. Well, I liked the 240 Watanabe but sold it after getting the 270 - depending on where the yen will go, I may buy one again or get one made with a similar profile but less reacting (i.e. when Dave starts using stainless steels :) ). The 225 Carter IP gyuto I had was a great knife that I had to sell for financial reasons. But on that one I somehow found the handle a little hefty and it got less use than the 240s, even though the length felt better. The 210 fish-handled Takeda should be taken away from me because I hardly ever use it and it keeps developing rust on me.
animated-smileys-embarrassed-07.gif


The 195 Carter HG funayuki took some getting used to. Coming from German knives, for the longest time I wanted something with a little heft to it, and the Carter is just ridiculously light and thin. But over time I learned to appreciate it, and it is now my most used gyuto/funayuki (whatever the difference may be), especially when precise cutting is important. Realizing that, I also sold the 180ish Carter.

To summarize my ramblings: I find the combo of a light 195 and a slightly heftier 240 perfect to do most things as a home cook. I am on Marko's list for a 225 to replace the Carter, and that may be just the perfect bridge between the two.

Stefan
 
Wait wait, can I still talk about length? My first two chef's knives were from Henckels and I always liked the 230 and only used the 260 for heavy tasks like wedging through a cabbage etc. Then I tried guytos and funayukis in approx. 150, 165, 180, 195, 210, 225, 240, 270, and 300. 300 was much too much for me as a home cook, and the 270 I kept is a Watanabe which is also a pretty massive knife that gets very little workout. But I just like Watanabe knives, so it stays regardless of use. I also have a very little used Hiro AS 270, but I set that aside in case I ever get to making a Western handle... In 240 I kept the Hiro AS and the Blazen. Not sure why no wa gyuto made the cut. Well, I liked the 240 Watanabe but sold it after getting the 270 - depending on where the yen will go, I may buy one again or get one made with a similar profile but less reacting (i.e. when Dave starts using stainless steels :) ). The 225 Carter IP gyuto I had was a great knife that I had to sell for financial reasons. But on that one I somehow found the handle a little hefty and it got less use than the 240s, even though the length felt better. The 210 fish-handled Takeda should be taken away from me because I hardly ever use it and it keeps developing rust on me.
animated-smileys-embarrassed-07.gif


The 195 Carter HG funayuki took some getting used to. Coming from German knives, for the longest time I wanted something with a little heft to it, and the Carter is just ridiculously light and thin. But over time I learned to appreciate it, and it is now my most used gyuto/funayuki (whatever the difference may be), especially when precise cutting is important. Realizing that, I also sold the 180ish Carter.

To summarize my ramblings: I find the combo of a light 195 and a slightly heftier 240 perfect to do most things as a home cook. I am on Marko's list for a 225 to replace the Carter, and that may be just the perfect bridge between the two.

Stefan

I'll keep the fish safe for you.
 
Topic Number Two: Choils

I've actually sold some of my personal knives that I really really liked because the choil shape was off. If it cramps my hand, I can't do it....

What didn't you like about them Tom? Meaning what shape caused your hand to cramp?

On the length thing (as a home cook)...I like a 210-225 for pretty much everything. I don't use shorter knives much except for opening packaging, lol...and I've never used anything much longer.
 
Yup! No rules. Haha. Just organically working around. Think coffee shop talk. :D
 
Topic Number Two: Choils

I've actually sold some of my personal knives that I really really liked because the choil shape was off. If it cramps my hand, I can't do it....

I just need the choil to not be sharp or abrasive.
 
The square choil thing doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. I have a nice callous where the bird finger meets the choil. So no big deal. The square kinda gives me a "locked in" feeling.

That makes sense. Would you actually prefer the square over a radius?
 
270 if I'm throwing on stocks, soups or mirepoix, 240 for detail work. Sometimes I just use one gyuto for a few days straight, and rotate, find an old one and bring it back into the fold, use it for a week straight and repeat.
 
I love the idea of this thread!

On length, I've pretty much always enjoyed a 10" (254'ish) knife so the 240's seem pretty close to right. The shortest gyuto I currently have is 225 and that is fine. That said, I've been wanting to try something shorter so I've ordered a new 210 from Maxim to see how they wind up performing for this home user. I really enjoy using anything up to about 280 so far, but anything I've used under 200 seems rather short.

On choils, as long as it's not sharp I don't mind it too much...I did break out a file for my Takeda's spine and choil the other day as they were annoyingly crisp. Favorite to date was the Kramer (Henckel's passaround); enjoyed the shape and also like the idea of easing the heel a bit.

For bread knives--use a gyuto!

And finally, I still say the best tool for breaking down chickens is my old Forschner curved boning knife. I've not tried J-knives for this and even though I guess that makes me rather close minded, the old style boner seems to just work and can't imagine any tool working better. Do I need to open my mind and try a honesuki?

Cheers!
 
In terms of size, I think length is over-emphasized, while very few people talk about width, which can be equally if not more important (that's what she said)... My first 240 was very tall and felt unwieldy in my hands. Switched to a 210, but missed the extra length. I finally found a good balance in my current knife, which is a 240 with a very narrow french profile, 45mm at the heel. It still feels very nimble despite the length.

To add to the confusion, I want to talk about bolsters, since Lefty mentioned them in the original post... In my mind, they're like a girl who dresses really hot because she's insecure and actually boring in bed (sorry, this is the kind of analogy you get from me at 2 in the morning). Bolsters are seductive and feel great in your hand when you're air-chopping in the store, but they make the knife's balance too neutral for my taste. When you're actually using it in the kitchen, a neutrally-balanced knife feels like it's just sitting there and expecting you to do all the work (see, it's a good analogy) while a blade-heavy knife feels like it's working with you. So it's not bolsters per-se I have a problem with, but neutrally balanced knives, which sort of go hand-in-hand.

And yes, chinacats, bread knives are for people who can't sharpen :)
 
In terms of size, I think length is over-emphasized, while very few people talk about width, which can be equally if not more important (that's what she said)... My first 240 was very tall and felt unwieldy in my hands. Switched to a 210, but missed the extra length. I finally found a good balance in my current knife, which is a 240 with a very narrow french profile, 45mm at the heel. It still feels very nimble despite the length.

To add to the confusion, I want to talk about bolsters, since Lefty mentioned them the original post... In my mind, they're like a girl who dresses really hot because she's insecure and actually boring in bed (sorry, this is the kind of analogy you get from me at 2 in the morning). Bolsters are seductive and feel great in your hand when you're air-chopping in the store, but they make the knife's balance too neutral for my taste. When you're actually using it in the kitchen, a neutrally-balanced knife feels like it's just sitting there and expecting you to do all the work (see, it's a good analogy) while a blade-heavy knife feels like it's working with you. So it's not bolsters per-se I have a problem with, but neutrally balanced knives, which sort of go hand-in-hand.

And yes, chinacats, bread knives are for people who can't sharpen :)

LOL!!

I like shorter (height) knives as well, in the 40-45mm range...with a bit of forward balance. About 1.5" north of the ferrule works for me usually.
 
The square choil thing doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. I have a nice callous where the bird finger meets the choil. So no big deal. The square kinda gives me a "locked in" feeling.
Yep, I got that callus and the one right next to it from the spine. I did have a knife once whose spine was so sharp it actually cut off that callus on my index finger. Never again.
 
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