My Masamoto KS from Rakuten - Your opinion?

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Bef

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I bought a Masamoto KS on Rakuten during spring. I'm new to japanese knives - it's definitly much better than any knife I've used before, but I can't figure if it's a good sample of Masamoto knives.

I'd like to have your opinion - here a a few pictures:

Heel picture #1

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/utkh.jpg
utkh.jpg


Heel picture #2

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/84mn.jpg
84mn.jpg


Tip of the knife (viewed from the spine)
A note about this picture: The tip of this knife was broken (1mm-2mm), so I had to fix it by removing some steel from the spine - though I haven't yet thinned it yet, so I guess it could be better.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/j23w.jpg
j23w.jpg


Please, share your opinion - is this Masamoto not that bad? How much thinning would it need?

Thanks!

Bef
 
Sorry, there are some issues with the images in my previous post. So here we go:

Heel picture #1
auf0.jpg



Heel picture #2
4bpn.jpg



Tip of the knife (viewed from the spine)
A note about this picture: The tip of this knife was broken (1mm-2mm), so I had to fix it by removing some steel from the spine - though I haven't yet thinned it yet, so I guess it could be better.
kqbq.jpg
 
How did it break? During shipping?

No, I think that it was broken when someone here stored it in a slot of my knives block that wasn't deep enough, so the tip of the knife hit our countertop.
 
This is a choil shot of a 240mm KS that I picked up off Rakuten maybe 2 weeks ago. It was a great cutter right out
of the box. Have yet to to take it to the stones. $225 delivered. I would not have bought it if I had to pay retail.
1pdqnk.jpg
 
That one is certainly not super thin near the edge but doesn't look bad. Keep in mind that it could thicken up or thin out as you move along the length of the knife. The choil shot isn't always representative of the overall geometry of the knife.
 
Thanks for those who replied.

So basically, what would be the best option to optimize my Masamoto? Thinning near the edge, 1"?

Or do I need to have my knife reprofiled or modified in some drastic way?

I could be comfortable thinning near the edge, but wouldn't be confident to go further myself, so I would need to look for a professional sharpener if I need to do more than that...
 
Thanks for those who replied.

So basically, what would be the best option to optimize my Masamoto? Thinning near the edge, 1"?

Or do I need to have my knife reprofiled or modified in some drastic way?

I could be comfortable thinning near the edge, but wouldn't be confident to go further myself, so I would need to look for a professional sharpener if I need to do more than that...
you should probably use your ks some and decide for yourself what it is you want from the knife. A stronger overall blade? or a thinner more delicate edge. Ideally the KS should have nice spine taper from heel to tip. infact, i think theyre pretty well known for having thin pointy tips.
 
you should probably use your ks some and decide for yourself what it is you want from the knife. A stronger overall blade? or a thinner more delicate edge. Ideally the KS should have nice spine taper from heel to tip. infact, i think theyre pretty well known for having thin pointy tips.
+1. If you like it, use it as is. If you don't like it, try thinning near the edge. If that isn't working out, send it.
 
'labor of love', tk59: Thanks for your input. I like my knife, but the tip (and, actually, the 2nd half of the knife as a whole) doesn't get as sharp as I'd like. For instance, I definitly can't cut onions using only the very tip. The heel, though, is very sharp. If I could get the 2nd half of this knife as sharp as the heel, I'd be happy.

I might try to thin the knife 10mm above the edge, to see if it gets better. And if it doesn't, I'll send it to a real specialist to have it fixed.
 
That one is certainly not super thin near the edge but doesn't look bad. Keep in mind that it could thicken up or thin out as you move along the length of the knife. The choil shot isn't always representative of the overall geometry of the knife.

Are you talking about bahamaroot's or bef's in this post? Bahamaroot's blade looked pretty good to me, but if that is the one you're talking about, I probably just need more experience looking at the geometry of blades.
 
bef, are you talking about the out of the box edge? The KS is really really easy to sharpen. if your having problems cutting after sharpening then thats a totally different thing.
 
bef, are you talking about the out of the box edge? The KS is really really easy to sharpen. if your having problems cutting after sharpening then thats a totally different thing.

Actually, out of the box edge was awesome. I would cut my fingers every day without even noticing how I dit it! It was almost as sharp as a razor.

The edge is much less sharp now. I have sharpened this knife about 3 times, but never thinned it. That might be why...?
 
Actually, out of the box edge was awesome. I would cut my fingers every day without even noticing how I dit it! It was almost as sharp as a razor.

The edge is much less sharp now. I have sharpened this knife about 3 times, but never thinned it. That might be why...?

How did you sharpen it the last time you tried?
 
no offence to you bef but it sounds like the issue with the sharpness isnt the knife i think it might be your sharpening technique. my ks had what i belive a pretty mediocore edge oob but took a little session on the stones and it was able to push cut hair without arm contact. seriously a very very easy knife to get sharp. just make sure your getting a conistent burr and do the magic marker trick so you can see if your hitting the edge the same. if it wedges at certian spots on the blade when cutting then thats not the edge and your going to need to focus thinning those areas
 
i always think of it like this. make the knife part of you sharpen it the way you want to use it maximise its uses that benifit you.
 
Hey Bef, I could totally be wrong here, slap me if I am, but I'd look at your sharpening technique first, then thin. All things held constant if it isn't a problem with your sharpening, then it's a much bigger problem with the knife, like incorrect heat treat or something along those lines. I'm sure someone else who knows more than me can correct this if I'm wrong, but if the blade started out that sharp it probably isn't a ht issue.

I think that this is still my grail knife, if I had the means I'd jump at the chance to get one of these from Rakutan.
 
I picked one up through Ratuken a couple of months ago and it was good out of the box (not great) FF was so so. I've been thinning it lately and it's getting better. It was fairly thin behind the edge when I first got it but the overall geometry was not great.


Sorry, there are some issues with the images in my previous post. So here we go:

Heel picture #1
auf0.jpg



Heel picture #2
4bpn.jpg



Tip of the knife (viewed from the spine)
A note about this picture: The tip of this knife was broken (1mm-2mm), so I had to fix it by removing some steel from the spine - though I haven't yet thinned it yet, so I guess it could be better.
kqbq.jpg
 
Sorry, there are some issues with the images in my previous post. So here we go:

Heel picture #1
auf0.jpg


Heel picture #2
4bpn.jpg



Tip of the knife (viewed from the spine)
A note about this picture: The tip of this knife was broken (1mm-2mm), so I had to fix it by removing some steel from the spine - though I haven't yet thinned it yet, so I guess it could be better.
kqbq.jpg

Heh. If by, is it "a good sample of Masamoto knives?", you're asking if it's a good sample of what's been sold on Rakuten recently, then the answer is yes.

If you're asking whether it's a bad knife, that's up to you. If you like it, then it's not a bad knife.

I remember you went for the Masamoto because you could get a good deal for one on Rakuten, even though a couple of members commented about how you would be better off with a middle of the road knife, that the Masamoto had hit or miss quality, and that a knife from a more knowledgeable and helpful vendor would likely be better for you because you were a beginner with basically no sharpening experience. But, now it seems quite clear that you're not very happy with it.

Actually, out of the box edge was awesome. I would cut my fingers every day without even noticing how I dit it! It was almost as sharp as a razor.

The edge is much less sharp now. I have sharpened this knife about 3 times, but never thinned it. That might be why...?

The lack of a sharp edge has nothing to do with whether this is a good example of a Masamoto, or whether it's thick behind the edge, or needs thinning. The lack of a sharp edge is a result of your sharpening; you can actually worsen the edge if you do not sharpen a knife correctly. Thinning, in and of itself, is the thinning of the area of the knife behind the edge, not technically the edge itself.

As for thinning, that depends on what kind of performance you want from the knife. How do you exactly want the knife to perform?

From the looks of it, it looks like it could use some thinning. Granted, I don't know how it cuts or what you expect from that knife. But, from what I recall, you did not have much experience sharpening. If you intend to personally do the thinning, good luck. It's going to take some equipment and time.

I will also add that, if you can't sharpen well, thinning is likely going to be very difficult for you to accomplish. You're better off sending it to someone.
 
I have to agree with Michael, if the edge out of box was good then you just need to work on your sharpening technique. This is a very easy knife to sharpen, but you could lose a bit of height while learning. Agree as well that it could probably use some thinning. I thinned mine enough to make me happy, what makes you happy is up to you to decide. I would suggest sending it to a professional and let them thin it for you and also give you a good idea of what you should be shooting for in the future...again, as this knife is not very tall I may recommend experimenting with something older or less expensive but that is your decision. I've had personal experience with Jon's edges and they are awesome; I believe you could also send your knives to either Dave M or Korin and get equally excellent results.
 
Are you talking about bahamaroot's or bef's in this post? Bahamaroot's blade looked pretty good to me, but if that is the one you're talking about, I probably just need more experience looking at the geometry of blades.
Bef's blade. And yes, Bef, you need to learn how to sharpen before you try messing with your blade geometry. Those knives are very easy to sharpen.
 
Sorry I didn't reply earlier... Been *very* busy in the last few months and forgot that thread.

I appreciate all the feedback I got from everyone. I understand that the issue is most likely a sharpening issue, not a knife issue, even though that Masamoto profile wouldn't be very good.

My issue is mostly with the tip. So far, I've been using Jon's Youtube video on sharpening tips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmBTO0cA_qw) to understand how to do it, but it looks like I'm not able to have any good results with that technique. There's something that I'm not doing correctly...

I'm getting better at sharpening the rest of the edge. I've been learning sharpening watching Dave Martell's DVDs, and Jon's videos. I also read a lot of topics on KKF regarding tip sharpening. And I'm using Dave's core set of stones.

So anyway, regarding my knife tip sharpening issues, I tried the "regular" technique (similar to sharpening the rest of the knife edge), and I got much better results. I understand however that I might end up with some issues with the knife tip profile if I keep using that technique instead of jon's way...

I'm also going to send that knife to Marko for a rehandle and blade refinish job (and I've ordered a Marko gyuto, a Marko cutting board, strop kit at the same time...)
 
Don't get discouraged with it Bef. I had my problems and then "ah ha" moments when you get it. Just takes lots of practice.
 
Have someone video you sharpening and post it, im sure you will get som nice feedback on how to improve.
 
don't feel bad, the tip is where most people have problems when sharpening.

Like others said, once you get it you get it. It'll be a eureka moment, just keep practicing.

I also have a ks gyuto from rakuten. It's a good knife, but not as amazing as all the forum hype surrounding it. Of course anything is hard to live up to all its hype.

I actually use my yoshihiro stainless gyuto more at work than konosuke hd or masamoto ks, or the sold misono ux10.
 
Just wanted to report that my sharpening technique is getting better...

That being said, I have shipped my Masamoto KS to Marko to have the blade refinished, and to rehandle the knife with an ebony D handle with silver spacer.

I'll try to post some pictures of the knife once it will be refinished.
 
Bef, I remember this thread, please do update us when you get it back, I can only imagine how nice it will be. It's been awhile since this thread started how confident do you feel in your sharpening now? Have you just been sharpening the KS or have you been using something else?
 
Bef, I remember this thread, please do update us when you get it back, I can only imagine how nice it will be. It's been awhile since this thread started how confident do you feel in your sharpening now? Have you just been sharpening the KS or have you been using something else?

I do get much better than I was. Especially with the knife tip, which I was not able to sharpen properly previously.

I'm also sharpening a Carbonext petty and an Ealy parer. I need some practice with the petty, though - I find it much more difficult to sharpen this knife than the gyuto and parer...

I will update this thread once my knife comes back.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top