09-20-2013, 06:05 PM
Maxim - I understand that you consider Mark's business practices to be cutthroat and to have crossed the line. It's clear that you consider him to have betrayed a friendship.But it's also clear that Dave and others like yourself have used their position with this forum to foster a hate filled lynch mob mentality against a competitor. There isn't any high moral ground evident anywhere.
09-20-2013, 06:13 PM
To a knowledgeable observer, those Hamon knives were created to mimic (expensive) Mizu-Honyaki blades - and, as pointed out in post #132, will be attractive to those who have done some rudimentary research and are led by buzzwords and steel hype.
09-20-2013, 06:16 PM
This is almost insulting in a way. I have my own free will. I have my own ability to look at things objectively. I have the ability to look at two sides of a story, and make my own choice based on my own morality. I don't know, or care about what the past history is between the members of this forum and Mark. All I know is what I've seen, and what I almost experienced myself first hand. THANKFULLY I did find this forum, and the good information presented here. Funny thing is, if it hadn't been for the pictures and video examples posted here...I might have believed the hype anyway. EVERYWHERE you go the Kool-Aid on the CKTG products is force fed, except here. Here, in its place is...what? A few vendors politely advertising their own wares in their own subforums? I'll take some ranting about the past (which to be honest seems to be 99% accurate...odd huh?), with honest answers and product descriptions over flat out lies and marketing hype any day.
Originally Posted by RJD55
How does that measure out on your set of 'moral ground scales'?
Understand also here, I'm not trying to be rude, but your defense of Mark and his products are honestly pretty sketchy. High moral ground? Assuming we as individual members of a forum don't have the ability to judge for ourselves in a clear minded fashion? Turning the issue back on the vendors in this forum...when NONE of the obviously ridiculous sales tactics used by 'the competitor' are used here?
Sketchy at best my friend.
09-20-2013, 06:19 PM
Cris you like to bash Mark and his forum but you don't mind using his forum for your personal gain, seems a little two faced. Do you post your opinions over there?
09-20-2013, 06:24 PM
When was my last post on that forum? I joined there prior to joining this forum, and since I've learned the things I've learned, haven't posted since.
Originally Posted by bahamaroot
Aside from that...if you want to speak of 'gain' lol...you're talking to the wrong guy. I don't make money on these knives. The 210 gyuto I'm making right now is down to about $3/hr after materials, and still has a good bit of work left in polishing and handle finishing. I make them because I love making them, not for 'gain'.
...and to be honest, even if I DO post my knives on that forum (which I haven't since my suji...and have been debating how to proceed since)...its to share my work, not to support Mark or his business practices.
-ETA ~ Where did I bash his forum? The Kool-Aid I was speaking of is on a number of forums, not just his.
09-20-2013, 06:36 PM
You joined here in June and there in Aug and you visited that forum today. Your last post was Aug 29. Doesn't quite fit with what you just posted.
Originally Posted by CrisAnderson27
09-20-2013, 06:38 PM
I really think this thread should be a sticky. So everytime C K T G pops up every 2 months people don't freak out and noobies get confused. In all honestly this thread cleared up a lot things for me.
09-20-2013, 06:43 PM
I just logged in to that forum to see when I posted last, you're 100% correct. Prior to that my last post was the 29th, as you said.
Originally Posted by bahamaroot
I joined here in June the FIRST time. I was banned within 10 minutes of making my first post for breaking the rules (which at the time I wasn't aware of). I then spent two months trying to contact Dave regarding my ban without success. I then found and joined CKTG (which in my introductory post I asked that if my post was out of line or against the rules...please don't ban me, due to my experience here), on the suggestion of some of the people I know outside of this forum. The day I joined I was in contact with Myron of Dream Burls to purchase a piece of Stefan's wood. He suggested I post pictures of the finished knife here, I told him I couldn't due to being banned. He talked to Dave, we worked out the issue, and I was allowed back on here. At that point I began to really learn about the things Mark does...and how they almost affected myself and the knives I make, along with how they've affected many others.
So yes...the story does match up.
Look...I pride myself on honesty and integrity, and don't mind being questioned regarding my actions. I don't hold any hard feelings towards you for questioning those things either. But if you have any doubts, talk to Dave, or even Myron. The facts are the facts.
09-20-2013, 06:56 PM
Cris I have no problem with you or care if you have dealings with Mark or his forum, I'm sure your a good guy. To be honest I find this whole Mark/Dave thing comical. I wasn't around when all this happened. I have bought things from Mark and from venders from this forum. I have gotten great service and products from them all. Most of the small business owners I have met in the past will smile and shake your hand and then stab you in the back as soon as you turn around. Just a fact of life. As long as I get good service for my dollar I'm happy. I think there is a lot more of playing both sides of the fence by a lot of members that would hate to admit it. I apologize for calling you out, really.
09-20-2013, 07:08 PM
I can absolutely appreciate that, and no need for an apology. As I've said earlier in this thread...I don't know Dave very well, we haven't interacted much. I don't know Maxim or the other vendors pretty much at all. But from all I've seen the differences are pretty clear.
Originally Posted by bahamaroot
That's not to say that Mark is the devil on earth and every transaction with him is endangering your soul. I don't even go out of my way to damn the guy. But when points come up that touch on my experiences, I speak up. Add to that when RJD55 came on, defending Mark's behavior and accusing others here of the same behavior, again...I had to speak up.
I also know that a lot of the members here are members there. I don't read around there enough to know about whether they're playing both sides or not...but I can see how it might appear that way.